Scales

[Rich4]

Nothing is overkill, it’s just expensive

[pjifl]

Yes - 0.002 grain is overkill but there is nothing wrong with that.

That is roughly 1/10,000 of a Gram. My scales go to this accuracy.
Thus one kernel = about 17 on the display. So it is way better than needed. I find that weighing to an accuracy of 1 Kernel is not too onerous.

Having reserve accuracy is a nice feeling.

I find it makes for faster weighing having this excessive accuracy.

If it is available and no more expensive and has the required range it is certainly viable.

Don't forget that weighing to 1 Kernel is no guarantee of success. There are many other factors in reloading that matter more. But weighing to one Kernel at least eliminates powder weight as a cause so one can confidently concentrate on other factors.

Peter Smith.

[cheech]

I did a ladder test at 900 yds , the last 4 shots with a final spread powder difference of 1.2 gns went into a 0.3 moa group . I’ve seen this happen with others as well , so that really shows the whole reloading package needs to be completely consistent to allow one variable to not matter so much

[bruce moulds]

i am a great believer in doing things the steam driven way where possible.
so when i see guys madly buying stuff in the belief that they "need" it to compete, i often have a quiet chuckle to myself.
powder weighing comes under this heading.
i have found that by throwing a charge and trickling up i can load moderately quickly.
my scale is the basic redding balance, which has had the knives sharpened a little by myself.
i can go a part of a kernel over the line, remove 1 kernel and it goes just under the line, add the kernel back, and it goes part over the line again.
i can remove the pan and put it back repeatedly for the same result.
a recent load workup has produced 1/4 moa vert at 300 m, 0.4 moa vert at 600 and 700 mt, and 0.5 moa vert at 900 mt.
again steam driven, i used a target rather than a labradar to test this.
i can shoot the same ammo in that gun and not get such good vert, primarily by cleaning wit jb and 3 other solvents to avoid carbon fouling.
it takes some shots to shoot well.
if i have a load that shoots this well, i feel that i am competitive gun and ammunition wise with all but the very best.
my groups are much wider than high, and here is where i intend to improve to gain better placings.
another place to get perceived vert is in having to wind the elevation knob to get the perfect elevation setting.
the sooner you get this in a string, the flatter the group will look.
cleaning regimes and knowing sight settings done less than well will kill vert more than not using fancy scales.
bruce.

[Blindbat]

Fancy scales they may be but I picked them up for the price of a pack of fags more than a basic redding balance. I won't wear a hair shirt by not using them when I have access to accuracy of 0.002gn.

[bruce moulds]

so do you cut your kernels to fit?
bruce.

[Rich4]

so do you cut your kernels to fit?
bruce.

I drop from a chargemaster and check on a gempro prior to pouring

[Blindbat]

so do you cut your kernels to fit?
bruce.

Now there's an idea, I could sort them by length and ........ hang on, you're yanking my chain arn't you......

[Rich4]

so do you cut your kernels to fit?
bruce.

Now there's an idea, I could sort them by length and ........ hang on, you're yanking my chain arn't you......

Maybe - Maybe not! I need to like it twice

[AlanF]

I think this discussion is similar to many we have - trying to decide how much trouble/expense its worth going to for the purposes of improving performance. This time its charge weight accuracy, sometimes its neck tension, bullet runout, etc. etc. Any error no matter how small will occasionally cause fliers when it accumulates by chance in the same direction as other errors. My attitude is decide how much money and effort to spend overall, then spread it in a way that gives maximum performance for the cost and effort. I weigh to the kernel in a similar manner to Bruce because its cheap and easy (not as fast as a Chargemaster or similar, but for retirees time is not of the essence ).

[bruce moulds]

alan,
experience tells you what works and what makes no difference.
it can be the case that some are scared off from fclass in the belief that you cannot be competitive without spending a bucketload of cash.
an example is some of the fancy dies now available.
good std dies like redding or rcbs, properly set up and utilized, in a press, can load better ammo than much more sophisticated and expensive ones used with little understanding.
scales are the same.
i wonder how many barrels have been thrown out because charges weighed on super scales still gave bad vert.
failure to recognize the real cause might have saved such a barrel.
a recent case comes to mind where a good friend discovered that his stainless tumbler was causing neck peening which got so bad it was causing seriously variable bullet release.
there is a school of thought that you now need to measure bullet seating pressure to have a chance.
my own feelings on this are that it is more important to just get it enough and siimilar, and this is easy with a little thought and effort.
by the way, chargemasters are not that fast, possibly slower than a powder thrower and a trickler.
bruce.

[Rich4]

They're definitely not faster than trickling, however it lets me do something else while its dumping a new charge, also Gempros work better with total load as opposed to trickling, merely a foible of the load cell software combination

[Gyro]

viewtopic.php?t=5675

Think about this lads : if a small fraction of a grain matters then perhaps u have a problem right there ?

[pjifl]

To give away secrets - I have not used a trickler for 20 years. They are crude slow cumbersome devices.

I use a shovel instead.

A folded piece of thick paper - cartridge paper or greeting card paper - with the end cut back at an angle and another more blunt angle for the last mm. Well creased down the centreline. When the end becomes fuzzy a recut or new one is warranted. A device like this can be 100 mm long and reach into the precision scale enclosure through a fairly narrow opening.

With this one can add or remove Kernels and see how many are involved at a glance. I throw into a commercial powder scale scoop and weigh roughly with a cheap digital scale. This tells me approximately how much powder to shovel which comes from a temporary powder reservoir in a squat bottle top.

Then transfer the powder scoop to the quality scales and use the shovel to sprinkle in the needed powder - or remove a few Kernels if need be and the best way to remove kernels that I know of.

Very fast and controllable.

But then I have weighed out chemicals like this for millenia.

Early auto 'chargemasters' put me off. Testing showed just how bad many were. Maybe different now but why change.

And yes, one can get the required accuracy from a simple classical powder scale as long as the pivots are sharp and clean. But it is considerably slower and requires more concentration.

Peter Smith.

[bruce moulds]

peter,
do you use tweezers to remove 1 kernel?
bruce.