State Gradings

[AlanF]

I've always thought these gradings lacked transparency. In most sports with similar systems you know exactly where you are. Just publishing a figure and number of shoots means its difficult to check on how the calculation was done, and what events they were based on. I'd like to see a list for each shooter showing the score, and winning score for each qualifying event. Otherwise people will always be suspicious that mistakes are being made (as they apparently are), and the system will lose our trust.

Alan

[Barry Davies]

That's a big ask Alan. Can you imagine how large the data sheet would be to cover several hundred shooters with up to the last 8 results, which are not necessarily the last 8 that were conducted as every body does not attend all PM's.
Not saying it is not a good idea, just that it is a big ask.

All grading figures ( for TR ) prior to this new system were calculated by club captains and never made public -- there has to be a certain amount of trust that it is done correctly. One always has the right to protest about anybodies grading if not happy.

The reason that mistakes are being made currently is because the VRA are trialing the system used so successfully by FS but they are not using the appropriate cut off points for TR. This results in most shooters being designated in a grade lower than they actually are, fortunately 99% of competitors realize this and enter in their correct grade so as to not take an unfair advantage.


Barry

[AlanF]

That's a big ask Alan. Can you imagine how large the data sheet would be to cover several hundred shooters with up to the last 8 results, which are not necessarily the last 8 that were conducted as every body does not attend all PM's.
Not saying it is not a good idea, just that it is a big ask.

All grading figures ( for TR ) prior to this new system were calculated by club captains and never made public -- there has to be a certain amount of trust that it is done correctly. One always has the right to protest about anybodies grading if not happy.

The reason that mistakes are being made currently is because the VRA are trialing the system used so successfully by FS but they are not using the appropriate cut off points for TR. This results in most shooters being designated in a grade lower than they actually are, fortunately 99% of competitors realize this and enter in their correct grade so as to not take an unfair advantage.


Barry

Barry,

If a database (rather than a spreadsheet) was used, the qualifying data would be just another report that could be published to a web page (along with the results). I don't use databases much, but this is an ideal application for them. If for example MS Access was used, it will import results done in Excel or other common data formats.

Alan

[Barry Davies]

My understanding is that when the NRA finally get around to it, that is probably what will happen. It will be a National Data base available to all to access.
The main problem is getting every organization that conducts a PM to forward those results to the NRAA for updating.
If a National Data Base is going to work then the co-operation of ALL is necessary.
On top of that it really is a huge task for somebody to update for the whole of Australia.
I would think that a State by state update would make the job lighter -again providing every state co-operates and does their bit.

Barry

[AlanF]

My understanding is that when the NRA finally get around to it, that is probably what will happen. It will be a National Data base available to all to access.
The main problem is getting every organization that conducts a PM to forward those results to the NRAA for updating.
If a National Data Base is going to work then the co-operation of ALL is necessary.
On top of that it really is a huge task for somebody to update for the whole of Australia.
I would think that a State by state update would make the job lighter -again providing every state co-operates and does their bit.

Barry

Barry,

Yes I look forward to a national database too. And if it was done properly there would no ongoing work required by the NRAA and very little by the States. I would think that everyone who does OPM stats nowadays would have web access. Results could be typed into a web form, or uploaded in a defined format. It could also be adapted to import ET results data. The gradings could be calculated automatically by the database and all results, gradings and their derivations published on the web immediately. The authors of any results would need to be contactable (by anyone) to query any disputed data. Obviously there would need to be a login system restricting access to appropriate parts of the database only.

Geoff Roberts could have written such a database standing on his head, but someone else seems to have taken over the NRAA IT role.

Alan

[DannyS]

I had an email from Geoff Evans, Pres of the VRA, on the 1st March, advising me that my gradings have been recalculated and they were wrong, they will be amended.

As to when that amendment occurs is anybodies guess. I suggest that if anyone thinks their gradings are incorrect that they contact the VRA.

Cheers
Danny

[DannyS]

VRA gradings have been updated, but please dont expect too much. TR seems to have changed, but us lower classes, dont hold your breath.

[RAVEN]

Alan & Barry I suggested something similar to SARA about 2 years ago when I was trying to put results up on the http://www.safclass.com
I received some results electronically in several formats to bits of scrap paper slipped under the door.
My proposal was that a OPM program be written that all the necessary fields to be filled out by the host using SARA membership no. would instantly fill in name and grade etc.
When the OPM was done and dusted results email back to SARA and results imported to the data base program would automatically update people grades
Something like that.
I'm not computer guru.

I guess their eyes glazed over and never followed through on.
I would have thought that now days a specific program like this could be commissioned by the NRAA and designed specifically for the purpose then sold to S&T's


RB

[Lynn Otto]

Richard it is easy to make someone's eyes glaze over when you suggest something outside the box of their expertise and comfort zone.

A program like that would be simple to construct...for the right person. What needs to happen is for someone to put out a general request for interested parties with the skill to step on up. We must have someone in the association who could do it. Of course then you have to be certain that the association will use and support the result. It would be criminal to ask somebody to give their time, skill and knowledge if the end product isn't appreciated and used to it's full potential.

[AlanF]

Rather than distributed stats software, I am more in favour of a national web-based result input facility, with the option of data file (specified standard format) upload. This would be far easier to maintain (whole system in one place), and would allow stats to be done by whatever means suited the local event organisers e.g. anything from a photographed results board to data upload from an integrated ET results system. The key requirement would be to remove the onus of collecting results from the national system administrator and put it on the event organisers to do the input.

Alan