6 br additional calibre

Get or give advice on equipment, reloading and other technical issues.

Moderator: Mod

Message
Author
Quick
Posts: 1134
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Yanchep, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#76 Postby Quick » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:15 am

Ben,

I agree. But while heavy bullets are more expensive, many won't want to change.

A way it could be done is have F/TR A grade and B grade if FS was to stop. If you run 155gr in 308 and any 223, you start in B grade until you are shooting scores that rival A grade. Then move to A grade. If you run 156gr or more in 308 then you are always in A grade no matter what.

That's just an idea I had. It could work the same for FO with the 6mm class of cals.

But until F/TR overtakes FS in numbers everywhere in australia, we won't see any change. And if NRAA changed to early, many would leave the sport. I shoot FS at times here in WA. Its good fun. But I shoot F/TR at Queens and Long range only PMs.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

Barry Davies
Posts: 1383
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#77 Postby Barry Davies » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:58 am

The number of members shooting FS clearly indicates it has preference over all others ( not just PM's ) Point is that those shooting FS can move to FO or FTR if they so choose, some have, but the overwhelming majority choose to stay in FS --for ( to my mind ) obvious reasons --ongoing costs being one of them, and,as has been well and truly made clear, 99.5% have no interest in international competition and the enormous cost that goes with it.
Why is it flavourable to continually want to get rid of the one discipline that has the most popularity --does'nt make sense.
Each discipline has it's own place in the overall picture and are well and truly established.
I have never heard anyone from FS suggesting that FO or FTR be done away with --to each their own.
Assuming FS was fazed out does anyone honestly think the ex FS shooters would go to either FO or FTR --some probably will but not all --guess where they will go?
Maybe FTR should be brought into line with FS.
Barry

Rich4
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:33 pm
Location: Chinchilla

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#78 Postby Rich4 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:05 am

Perhaps it would be better to identify why FS is popular, I suspect the narrow focus of 2 rounds and restricted projectiles actually encourages people to try without as much fear of being outspent after a large investment, equipment longevity consumable costs are all smaller making more practice affordable and it levels the playing field

Quick
Posts: 1134
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Yanchep, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#79 Postby Quick » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:14 am

I agree. FS isn't going anywhere. Especially here in WA.

But lets get back to the original question. Do we think adding the 6BR to FS and TR is good or bad?

For me, If it got introduced, I would run a 6BR for shorts and calm days at the longs, for rougher days, id run my 308. if I shot FS at a comp. That's what I would choose to do.

For me however, I have a 6mm Grendel which is the same as the 6BR is performance but alas it isnt a 6BR so I would still be in FO.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

scott/r
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:22 pm
Location: far north brisbane

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#80 Postby scott/r » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:57 am

Quick wrote:I agree. FS isn't going anywhere. Especially here in WA.

But lets get back to the original question. Do we think adding the 6BR to FS and TR is good or bad?

For me, If it got introduced, I would run a 6BR for shorts and calm days at the longs, for rougher days, id run my 308. if I shot FS at a comp. That's what I would choose to do.

For me however, I have a 6mm Grendel which is the same as the 6BR is performance but alas it isnt a 6BR so I would still be in FO.


As for if I thought adding a 6br to t/r rules is a good or bad thing? I'd rather compete against someone using 168 or 185grn projectiles in their 308.... but then again, either is bad form as far as I am concerned.
As far as f standard is concerned, I don't shoot it, so I don't believe that I have the right to comment.
Scott.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2900
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#81 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:08 pm

if 6br were introduced and I shot tr, I would use it at all ranges, and particularly on rougher days and at the longs.
but I would prefer the 6.5 creedmoor.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Tim L
Posts: 876
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: Townsville

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#82 Postby Tim L » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:39 pm

Quick wrote:Ben,


If you look at the last WARA Queens. Top F/TR beat top FS by around 10 points. When it really blows, those big bullets help.

And yet in the teams the top FSTD scores beat the FTR scores bar match 2 (7,8,9) where FTR took it by 1 point with 1250.55 vs 1249.54
So maybe it's just the nut behind the butt.

Quick
Posts: 1134
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Yanchep, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#83 Postby Quick » Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:43 pm

Tim,

Well the top FS team did have home range advantage :D :D

But your right, it does make you wonder....
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

Weairy
Posts: 418
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:43 pm
Location: Seymour, Vic

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#84 Postby Weairy » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:50 am

FS, FO & F-TR are vastly different categories and all three need to exist in my opinion. F/TR is international and the bipods/varying projectiles/weights makes it challenging, F/Open is international but takes a big budget to win generally, F-STD offers those of us with a tighter budget a good standardised class to shoot, without the complication of a bipod. Let's be honest, transitioning to F/Open from F/Std is about a $5-10k investment to be competitive, and ongoing cost from there. Most F-Std shooters couldn't afford that outlay. F-Std is still the largest field at most prize meetings I've been to in VIC. F/TR hasn't really taken off over here yet.

With regards to 6BR velocity, I've got two barrels that shoot the same at 2735-2750. I've won prize meetings with it against 7SAUMs in perfect conditions (0-2kmph winds) in shorter ranges (500/600yd). A standard BR Norma case doesn't hold all that much and we've found no advantage to punching the 105s any harder than that. You might be able to pump them a bit harder, but I don't think it's *that* much of an advantage. Generally, following the 6BR pages on FB etc, most people are using a similar combo with 105 VLDs of 29.5-30.5gn of 2208/Varget and getting similar results. But works for me mightn't work for you; different lengths/twists will make a fair difference to that I'm sure. Again, not being argumentative, just offering my experiences.

In the wind, the 6BR gets thrown around a lot. I wouldn't even bother pulling one out on a day with anything over about 10kmph winds, at anything over 600yds.

600-1000yd with a 6BR makes you feel like you've got a blowpipe, especially when there's a 284 or similar going KABOOM beside you and the BR is going *pop*.
Josh Weaire
Nagambie R.C.
I'm not Craig, if you want to contact him, email on c.weaire@bigpond.com

ben_g
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#85 Postby ben_g » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:47 am

If Ft-R had a projectile weight limit there wouldn’t be any need for standard.
Standard has good numbers in some comps I attend and then low in others.
FO had nearly 3times the competitors at Sydney queens than F-standard A grade.

The stocks, pedestal front rests, actions and scopes winning F-standard are the same as F-open, it would be the cost of a rebarrel and new dies to move into FO.

F-standard should have remained as bipod only. Many shooters on a budget find the outlay for a seb neo or Farley prohibitive, and these rests certainly help to win.

FT-R with the limitation of 155gr would have been a good move on behalf of ICFRA. Recoil in an FTR rifle shooting heavies is certainly stout and not too appealing to the older guys. Imagine the uptake to FTR if it was restricted to 155!?!? Cheap components, good barrel life and tolerable recoil for those that are sensitive to recoil.

Barry Davies
Posts: 1383
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#86 Postby Barry Davies » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:51 pm

Ben,You'r being selective.
Let's select another --Vic Queens had twice the number of FS than FO --- and don't forget FS comprises both A and B grade, so that makes Sydney almost equal numbers in each discipline. ( 27 to 23)
In fact if you look at all Queens in 2019 ( except ACT ) the numbers are --FO 168, FS 228, but then who's counting.
Numbers at PM's mean little as the % of members that attend PM's is small in the overall number of members.
I agree that if FTR was limited to 155gn projectiles there would probably be more shooting it-- most likely as a second discipline.
Limiting the projectile in FTR was tried last year at ICFRA level and got knocked back.
The cost of a new barrel and dies --$1300 plus. Ongoing costs --appreciably more. (depending on calibre etc )
FS was never " bipod only " but I agree it would have been better --less cost, more of a level field.( debatable )
FS is what it is --very popular, reasonably cheap,( comparatively ) and highly competative. How about we leave it alone.
Barry

Old Trev-39
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:07 pm

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#87 Postby Old Trev-39 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:12 pm

You do not need a Seb Neo Farley or any other joy stick front rest. There is nothing wrong with a screw windage adjustable rest. Much cheaper and not hard to make yourself if you have a bit of gear. There are probably quite a few laying around not being used as they were all that the short range B/R shooters used for years before going over to joy stick rests. The joystick rest may have an advantage in multiple aim point targets for fast transition across the target. I have used a screw type windage top for years and do not feel disadvantaged. I could afford to by one if I thought it would be better, but I do not.
Cheers,
Trevor.

Tim N
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#88 Postby Tim N » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:35 pm

F Open has nearly become FS when you look at it.
Most are shooting the 7mm 180gn Berger 2800-2950 fps
With a few dabbling in 180gn +
Not many wild variations as there may have been in the beginning.
I’ve heard tales of 22-250 AI and 6.5x57 improved etc
Probably FS is best left alone.
The narrow restriction in FS is what makes it the comp it is- no advantage to the shooter who has a 6br at the ready beside their 308 just in case.
If FS was originally started as 6mm only I’d be keen to shoot it.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

Quick
Posts: 1134
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Yanchep, Western Australia
Contact:

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#89 Postby Quick » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:40 pm

Tim N wrote:F Open has nearly become FS when you look at it.
Most are shooting the 7mm 180gn Berger 2800-2950 fps
With a few dabbling in 180gn +
Not many wild variations as there may have been in the beginning.
I’ve heard tales of 22-250 AI and 6.5x57 improved etc
Probably FS is best left alone.
The narrow restriction in FS is what makes it the comp it is- no advantage to the shooter who has a 6br at the ready beside their 308 just in case.
If FS was originally started as 6mm only I’d be keen to shoot it.


I couldn't agree more. At the top end in FO, everyone runs the same gear nearly. F/TR is still varied with gear, bullets, technique used, etc.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

sungazer
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:58 pm

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#90 Postby sungazer » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:09 am

Another small gripe that may rub the 308 FS shooters the wrong way is the bullet Tax. Since the removal of restrictions on 223 approved bullets they are able to avoid the bullet tax the 6BR calibre most likely would also be able to avoid the tax. This just leaves the FS 308 shooters to foot the bill of the bullet tax. Seems a little unfair to me.


Return to “Equipment & Technical”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests