Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

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Frank Green
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Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#16 Postby Frank Green » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:08 am

Josh Cox wrote:Had a crack with the 230 ATIPS today.

From a 308 FTR rifle, 1:10 Bartlein 300/308 HP, ADI LR primer brass, ADI 2208, 45-43 in one grain increments.

Velocities 2594-45GN, 2568-44GN and 2514-43GN.

Firstly I'll start by saying, I do not know anyone that has truly got the big projectiles working well from the 308 case (some claim to, but their vertical grouping shows otherwise). I've played with 210 VLD, 215 Hybrids, 230 Hybrids and now 230 Hornady ATIPS, nothing looks super awesome.

Have got the Berger 155.5 shooting very flat, but it would appear I can't read wind for shit.

From my 308, not terribly interested in persuing these any further for my FTR guns. That said, I couldn't get the 210 VLD / 215 or 230 Hybrids to shoot either, last week I had a shoot of one of "The Greek God of Steel" FO guns (300WSM, 800M at Canberra), shooting 215 hybrids, and it shot awesome (well over 2950FPS, it was so much fun, I think I wee'd in my pants a little bit each shot).

To those that suggested the 185-200 realm for FTR, I now get it.

Why, I do not know.

What was interesting: between 45-44 grains the velocity difference was 26 FPS, yet 44-43 grains was 54 FPS, thoughts ? (% of oxidiser in the powder mix ?)


My guess is besides too heavy of a bullet for a 308 case I‘M going to say your twist isn’t fast enough. I don’t recall exactly till I get to work tomorrow but at 2800fps they needed faster than a 10 twist according to my numbers. I’ll double check tomorrow.

Josh Cox
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Location: Cairns QLD

Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#17 Postby Josh Cox » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:25 pm

Thanks Frank,

Am very interested to see your information, using the Berger Twist Calculator it looks OK, but what you are saying seems quite plausible.

Steve Lazarus has lent me a 1:8 TF barrel, I will give the 215 Hybrids a run this coming weekend in this barrel at 800M.

The FO gun was a 1:10 at 2950.

Thanks again Frank.

AlexE
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:18 am

Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#18 Postby AlexE » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:32 pm

Josh Cox wrote:Had a crack with the 230 ATIPS today.

From a 308 FTR rifle, 1:10 Bartlein 300/308 HP, ADI LR primer brass, ADI 2208, 45-43 in one grain increments.

Velocities 2594-45GN, 2568-44GN and 2514-43GN.

Firstly I'll start by saying, I do not know anyone that has truly got the big projectiles working well from the 308 case (some claim to, but their vertical grouping shows otherwise). I've played with 210 VLD, 215 Hybrids, 230 Hybrids and now 230 Hornady ATIPS, nothing looks super awesome.

Have got the Berger 155.5 shooting very flat, but it would appear I can't read wind for shit.

From my 308, not terribly interested in persuing these any further for my FTR guns. That said, I couldn't get the 210 VLD / 215 or 230 Hybrids to shoot either, last week I had a shoot of one of "The Greek God of Steel" FO guns (300WSM, 800M at Canberra), shooting 215 hybrids, and it shot awesome (well over 2950FPS, it was so much fun, I think I wee'd in my pants a little bit each shot).

To those that suggested the 185-200 realm for FTR, I now get it.

Why, I do not know.

What was interesting: between 45-44 grains the velocity difference was 26 FPS, yet 44-43 grains was 54 FPS, thoughts ? (% of oxidiser in the powder mix ?)


I'm not sure on your altitude, but I'm getting an SG of 1.12 at sea level for a 230 atip in a 10 twist. Thats right at the bottom end of marginal.

The most accurate rifle I have ever owned was Cam Mcewan's Hall B that I rebarreled with a 1:9 308 shooting 230 hybrids. Running 44gr of 2209, I got a measly 2400fps and it was unfairly accurate. At 2400fps, the 230 hybrid offers no advantage over any of the more run of the mill ftr combinations. The 230 atip and 230 smk on the other hand do.

If you have a chance to try in a faster twist, give a slow load of 09 a run. It could be that the barrel I had was just exceptionally good and I'll be lucky to ever repeat it, but I'm curious enough to give it a try.

Josh Cox
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Location: Cairns QLD

Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#19 Postby Josh Cox » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:10 pm

Thanks Alex, I've got a borrowed 1:8, will give it a crack with 215 Hybrids, ADI brass 46 of 2208.

Frank Green
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#20 Postby Frank Green » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:09 am

Josh Cox wrote:Thanks Frank,

Am very interested to see your information, using the Berger Twist Calculator it looks OK, but what you are saying seems quite plausible.

Steve Lazarus has lent me a 1:8 TF barrel, I will give the 215 Hybrids a run this coming weekend in this barrel at 800M.

The FO gun was a 1:10 at 2950.

Thanks again Frank.


According to my twist rate calc's at 2600fps. you need a 1-8.778 twist min. to stabilize the 230 ATIPS.

At 2800fps. you need 1-9.24 twist. That's why I did my 300PRC barrel on my F class rifle in a 1-9 twist and that was before the ATIPS where out. I know the 225 ELDM need a 10 twist min. and according to my calc's the 230SMK needed faster than a 10 so I went straight to a 9 twist. All 3 of those bullets shoot awesome out of my gun..

So your twist being at 10 in conjunction with you not even making the velocity at 2600fps. that's the cause of your accuracy problem. It's not a bullet problem in this case in my opinion.

At 2400fps. you need a 1-8.47 twist. So at 2500fps. your around a 8.624 twist.

Later, Frank

Josh Cox
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Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:00 pm
Location: Cairns QLD

Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#21 Postby Josh Cox » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:53 am

Thanks Frank, which program are you using ?

Frank Green
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#22 Postby Frank Green » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:38 pm

Josh Cox wrote:Thanks Frank, which program are you using ?


No program!

I have a old US Military/Arsenal graph/chart and have never seen another one like it in over 20 years anywhere. You have to do some math and follow the graph and chart to get the twist that is needed. What is interesting there is a modifier for boat tail bullets but whenever I use the modifier it makes the twist go even faster and I feel that is even more than what is needed. I’ll use the modifier once in a while to see what it will calc out to be but I don’t use it for any recommendations.

The only problem I’m seeing using this older manual calculator is that with some of these really long type bullets (some of the solid bullets) it’s almost going off the edge of the graph/scale and gets to the point I think it is unusable.

For the most part though over the years I have never found it to let me down and or give me a false calculation.
Last edited by Frank Green on Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Josh Cox
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Location: Cairns QLD

Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#23 Postby Josh Cox » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:45 pm

Warning: I'm about to learn something.

So how do I work out what will and what will not work in terms of "barrel twist rate" versus "projectile" versus "velocity" ?

External ballistics I mostly get.

Internal no so much.

Re-engaging dumb ass mode.

Keels
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:43 pm
Location: Cairns

Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#24 Postby Keels » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:48 pm

Look at what I learnt to do today daddy!

Frank Green
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#25 Postby Frank Green » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:50 am

Josh Cox wrote:Warning: I'm about to learn something.

So how do I work out what will and what will not work in terms of "barrel twist rate" versus "projectile" versus "velocity" ?

External ballistics I mostly get.

Internal no so much.

Re-engaging dumb ass mode.


Best thing I can tell you is to ask questions.

You can use some of the online calculators like the Berger twist rate calc., the greenhill formula or the SG calculator on JBM ballistics or ask a well known shooter down under by ya or post your question here on the forum or ask me to do a twist rate calc.

The other thing to keep in mind that most of these calculators etc....cannot replace real world testing/experience. They cannot take into consideration like what the wind does to the bullets, elevation, temp., humidity and the effect of terrain and light and mirage etc....

Here is a link to JBM....

http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics ... tors.shtml

scroll down to the bottom of the page and will find the stability calculator. Plug the numbers in and play with it. It works pretty good.

Later, Frank

Julian D
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Location: Mackay

Re: Hornady ATIP 230GN 30cal

#26 Postby Julian D » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:14 am

Josh Cox wrote:
Re-engaging dumb ass mode.



I thought you were a flying bus driver Josh :shock: ,


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