Kock up, can it be fixed ?

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Mozzie
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:47 pm
Location: Cairns

Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#1 Postby Mozzie » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:26 pm

It's Christmas,( or more commonly called the silly season), so it's makes me feel a little better.
I have a F open rifle that shoots pretty good, but my understanding of precision reloading is basic, I have dedicated area for reloading but in reality it's just a seat in a shed with a press and stuff, where I've made alot of really bad rounds ( and some decent ones) as of late, untill last week. I have a 6 turret press and after adjusting my dies for the correct shoulder bump ( that's another story ,something else I didn't do very well by a massive 1/4 inch.). After a disappointing shoot on Sunday , thought I would have a look to see if there was an answer. Here comes the stupid bit. I failed to tighten the central bolt holding the turret in place and consequently after putting the cases on a concentricity gauge I now have a large portion of my lapua cases that if they were eatable would resemble a banana. (Allbeate a fairly straight one)
The neck know has a 2-4 PLUS thou runout in relation to the body of the case, so my questions are this,
I suspect this had an influence on my results on sunday ?
Can I salvage these cases ?
Turret press bolt is now got lock tight on it.
Any ideas would be helpful.
Cheers
Mozzie
My truck doesn’t run on love, it runs on diesel.
However, I love my rifle and it runs on lead. #-o

mike H
Posts: 578
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 5:34 pm
Location: JUNEE NSW

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#2 Postby mike H » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:53 pm

Trying to imagine how you could mess up the shoulder bump by a 1/4”,too much for my feeble brain.

Old Trev-39
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:07 pm

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#3 Postby Old Trev-39 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:16 pm

Hi Dave,
Give me a call.
Trevor.

Mozzie
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:47 pm
Location: Cairns

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#4 Postby Mozzie » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:52 pm

Trevor
Thanks I'll call you tomorrow arvo
My truck doesn’t run on love, it runs on diesel.
However, I love my rifle and it runs on lead. #-o

Pommy Chris
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#5 Postby Pommy Chris » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:43 pm

Mozzie wrote:It's Christmas,( or more commonly called the silly season), so it's makes me feel a little better.
I have a F open rifle that shoots pretty good, but my understanding of precision reloading is basic, I have dedicated area for reloading but in reality it's just a seat in a shed with a press and stuff, where I've made alot of really bad rounds ( and some decent ones) as of late, untill last week. I have a 6 turret press and after adjusting my dies for the correct shoulder bump ( that's another story ,something else I didn't do very well by a massive 1/4 inch.). After a disappointing shoot on Sunday , thought I would have a look to see if there was an answer. Here comes the stupid bit. I failed to tighten the central bolt holding the turret in place and consequently after putting the cases on a concentricity gauge I now have a large portion of my lapua cases that if they were eatable would resemble a banana. (Allbeate a fairly straight one)
The neck know has a 2-4 PLUS thou runout in relation to the body of the case, so my questions are this,
I suspect this had an influence on my results on sunday ?
Can I salvage these cases ?
Turret press bolt is now got lock tight on it.
Any ideas would be helpful.
Cheers
Mozzie

Just shoot them and next time you resize they will be fine. Large explosion slamming the brass to the chamber will fix any resizing issues in one shot.
Chris

Matt P
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#6 Postby Matt P » Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:38 am

Pommy Chris wrote:
Mozzie wrote:It's Christmas,( or more commonly called the silly season), so it's makes me feel a little better.
I have a F open rifle that shoots pretty good, but my understanding of precision reloading is basic, I have dedicated area for reloading but in reality it's just a seat in a shed with a press and stuff, where I've made alot of really bad rounds ( and some decent ones) as of late, untill last week. I have a 6 turret press and after adjusting my dies for the correct shoulder bump ( that's another story ,something else I didn't do very well by a massive 1/4 inch.). After a disappointing shoot on Sunday , thought I would have a look to see if there was an answer. Here comes the stupid bit. I failed to tighten the central bolt holding the turret in place and consequently after putting the cases on a concentricity gauge I now have a large portion of my lapua cases that if they were eatable would resemble a banana. (Allbeate a fairly straight one)
The neck know has a 2-4 PLUS thou runout in relation to the body of the case, so my questions are this,
I suspect this had an influence on my results on sunday ?
Can I salvage these cases ?
Turret press bolt is now got lock tight on it.
Any ideas would be helpful.
Cheers
Mozzie

Just shoot them and next time you resize they will be fine. Large explosion slamming the brass to the chamber will fix any resizing issues in one shot.
Chris

Yeah and with 1/4" headspace lead to case head separation !!!

Pommy Chris
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#7 Postby Pommy Chris » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:27 am

Matt P wrote:
Pommy Chris wrote:
Mozzie wrote:It's Christmas,( or more commonly called the silly season), so it's makes me feel a little better.
I have a F open rifle that shoots pretty good, but my understanding of precision reloading is basic, I have dedicated area for reloading but in reality it's just a seat in a shed with a press and stuff, where I've made alot of really bad rounds ( and some decent ones) as of late, untill last week. I have a 6 turret press and after adjusting my dies for the correct shoulder bump ( that's another story ,something else I didn't do very well by a massive 1/4 inch.). After a disappointing shoot on Sunday , thought I would have a look to see if there was an answer. Here comes the stupid bit. I failed to tighten the central bolt holding the turret in place and consequently after putting the cases on a concentricity gauge I now have a large portion of my lapua cases that if they were eatable would resemble a banana. (Allbeate a fairly straight one)
The neck know has a 2-4 PLUS thou runout in relation to the body of the case, so my questions are this,
I suspect this had an influence on my results on sunday ?
Can I salvage these cases ?
Turret press bolt is now got lock tight on it.
Any ideas would be helpful.
Cheers
Mozzie

Just shoot them and next time you resize they will be fine. Large explosion slamming the brass to the chamber will fix any resizing issues in one shot.
Chris

Yeah and with 1/4" headspace lead to case head separation !!!

He did not say he had 1/4 inch head space that would be impossible, the case would be crushed and would be perfectly safe as firing pin would not reach it which is 50 thou. He is only talking 2-4 thou issues which is why I said to him shoot them again and resize correctly.
Chris

Matt P
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#8 Postby Matt P » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:53 am

I have a 6 turret press and after adjusting my dies for the correct shoulder bump ( that's another story ,something else I didn't do very well by a massive 1/4 inch.).

Pommy Chris
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#9 Postby Pommy Chris » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:05 am

Matt P wrote:I have a 6 turret press and after adjusting my dies for the correct shoulder bump ( that's another story ,something else I didn't do very well by a massive 1/4 inch.).

He also said he shot them at the weekend and they did not shhot well but were going off. With 1/4 on an inch of headspace 6mm headspace cases would be crushed and would not go off for sure, with 10 thou headspace (0.254mm) likely some rounds would not go off, 6mm!!! is impossible.
He also said his issues was 2-4 thou run out.
Chris

Mozzie
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:47 pm
Location: Cairns

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#10 Postby Mozzie » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:43 pm

Thanks for the replies.
Ok so my Kock up is fixable, that's great to know, I will fire all my cases and re measure the run out.
I know that concentricity is a key factor in accuracy, and I strive to get
1-2 thou max runout on a loaded round , but how much runout on a case only is the norm, with new lapua they were 1\2 of 1 thou .
At what point do I say throw away and start again?
Cheers
Mozzie
My truck doesn’t run on love, it runs on diesel.
However, I love my rifle and it runs on lead. #-o

Rich4
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:33 pm
Location: Chinchilla

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#11 Postby Rich4 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:18 pm

You can manually straighten loaded rounds with reasonable results, runout depends on where you measured it and what gauge you used, if wall thickness varies they will bend from firing with larger headspace, if they are straight going in and bent coming out it’s chamber or wall thickness, if they are bent going in and straight coming out it’s your dies, what dies are you using? I only fls when necessary otherwise lee collet die

Pommy Chris
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#12 Postby Pommy Chris » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:14 am

Mozzie wrote:Thanks for the replies.
Ok so my Kock up is fixable, that's great to know, I will fire all my cases and re measure the run out.
I know that concentricity is a key factor in accuracy, and I strive to get
1-2 thou max runout on a loaded round , but how much runout on a case only is the norm, with new lapua they were 1\2 of 1 thou .
At what point do I say throw away and start again?
Cheers
Mozzie

Peter Smith might chime in but seem to remember he said 5 thou ie 5 one way and 5 the other so measuring 10 thou.
Shooting you cases will slam the brass against the chamber so it will be back to normal again after it is fired.
Much too will depend on if you shoot in the lands or not how important run out is. I was doing some loads with my 210vld gun which I shoot about 7 thou into the lands. I dropped a round and it landed on the projectile so I remeasured the run out, it was huge the dial gauge swung about 50 thou or more massive run out. I put it in the bullet box upside down so I knew which round it was. I shot my groups and put all through one hole at 200 yards. Happy with my group I decided to fire the round with the massive run out at the same target and see what happened. It joined the other shots and went through the same hole too even with all that run out. My feeling is that this was due to me shooting that gun on the lands, not convinced that if I was shooting with jump that that bad bullet would have shot well.
Anyway have a great Christmas Mozzie :D
All the best
Chris

KHGS
Posts: 742
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:46 am
Location: Cowra NSW
Contact:

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#13 Postby KHGS » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:23 am

Pommy Chris wrote:
Mozzie wrote:Thanks for the replies.
Ok so my Kock up is fixable, that's great to know, I will fire all my cases and re measure the run out.
I know that concentricity is a key factor in accuracy, and I strive to get
1-2 thou max runout on a loaded round , but how much runout on a case only is the norm, with new lapua they were 1\2 of 1 thou .
At what point do I say throw away and start again?
Cheers
Mozzie

Peter Smith might chime in but seem to remember he said 5 thou ie 5 one way and 5 the other so measuring 10 thou.
Shooting you cases will slam the brass against the chamber so it will be back to normal again after it is fired.
Much too will depend on if you shoot in the lands or not how important run out is. I was doing some loads with my 210vld gun which I shoot about 7 thou into the lands. I dropped a round and it landed on the projectile so I remeasured the run out, it was huge the dial gauge swung about 50 thou or more massive run out. I put it in the bullet box upside down so I knew which round it was. I shot my groups and put all through one hole at 200 yards. Happy with my group I decided to fire the round with the massive run out at the same target and see what happened. It joined the other shots and went through the same hole too even with all that run out. My feeling is that this was due to me shooting that gun on the lands, not convinced that if I was shooting with jump that that bad bullet would have shot well.
Anyway have a great Christmas Mozzie :D
All the best
Chris

Bullets that are heavy for diameter, i.e. long bearing surface, are less critical about runout and as Chris says I also believe jammed ammo is less sensitive.
Keith H.

Mozzie
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:47 pm
Location: Cairns

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#14 Postby Mozzie » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:28 pm

Thanks to all who have replied with info.
Concentricity is being measured on a Sinclair gauge, I have Redding competition dies with micro meters and the Redding competition shell holders with 2 thou increments.
When I started purchasing my reloading hear I thought that a turret press would save changing dies and be ok, yes it's ok but not what I need when chasing 60's and X 's.
When I started F class I was under no illusion that the right equipment is required, and deep pockets are required if you want to keep up with the tecno race. Concenquently I'm now in the market for a good press, any ideas would be great please, and will be selling my turret press. Please send me a pm. I'm located in Cairns .
My truck doesn’t run on love, it runs on diesel.
However, I love my rifle and it runs on lead. #-o

bsouthernau
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:31 pm

Re: Kock up, can it be fixed ?

#15 Postby bsouthernau » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:14 pm

Mozzie wrote:When I started purchasing my reloading hear I thought that a turret press would save changing dies and be ok, yes it's ok but not what I need when chasing 60's and X 's.


I reckon I lose heaps more points by pointing the rifle in the wrong place than by loading with Redding competition dies and a Lyman turret press. Wnen I need to load away from home I use Wilson dies and an arbor press. I've been unable to detect any differences in the quality of the ammunition produced using either.

Barry


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