Neck resizing/tension

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Tony Q
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Neck resizing/tension

#1 Postby Tony Q » Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:53 pm

What’s the general opinion regarding neck resizing / tension

redding ring coller style? -v- Lee collet style?


For me, and please correct me if im wrong...

I use the redding style, I sometimes cant help but wonder that because its only sizing the outer part of the neck any variation in wall thickness will result in a variation of neck tension.

The Lee collet on the other hand only sizes the inner part of the neck and as such will theoretically have more uniform tension but in doing so it leaves the outer neck dimension as a possible variable.

What are your thoughts?

Cameron Mc
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#2 Postby Cameron Mc » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:50 pm

Ideally the neck thickness should be measured and the not so good cases put aside. I dont do this as I don,t have a Ball Micrometer to do this. I use Lapua brass, so this eliminates most of the above problem.
I skim my cases with a neck turner to take away the high spots. At the moment my F Class rifles don,t have tight necks, so the neck turning is just to take away the irregularities.
I use Wilson straight line dies with Redding bushes. It is trial and error to get the right size bush. I clean the inside of the case necks regularly with a bronze brush. I have just enough neck tension to hold the projectiles during transport. Works for me.

Cameron

Tony Q
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#3 Postby Tony Q » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:37 pm

Cameron

Mine are very similar to yours with the exception of neck turning. As my chamber has a long throat (so I can use 175 or larger in match rifle) my 155gn’s are not seated very far in at all. My group sizes at 100m are routinely 5 shot ½ to ¼ min when I test ammo batches of the bench.

The rifle and ammo have produced 60/60 at both 300m and 500m so I think I can conclude that my equipment and ammo are not to bad.

Its just me thats the problem :shock:

Simon C
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#4 Postby Simon C » Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:43 pm

Does the redding style die size against a mandrel as per the lee?? I also use Lapua as to remove/minimise any variability in brass weight, wall thickness & capacity. I thought as long as the tension is consistnt internally, thats all that matters. I size the case then rotate it 90deg and reize to ensure uniformity...works for me :wink:
"Aim small, miss small"

Simon

B.Scheske
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#5 Postby B.Scheske » Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:57 pm

hi simon

i use the basic RCBS dies and you have seen what mine and sam's rifles shoot like

if i can shoot a 58/60 at 800m with these dies and a stock standard rem 700 i don't see the need for the more expensive dies, and rifles for that mater.
sure i would like a differnt stock to be more comfortable but is it necessary?and will it improve my shooting?
"Make The First Shot Count!"


Brett

Simon C
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#6 Postby Simon C » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:01 pm

I think it comes down to u working out what works for your equipment and then executing the shot properly. But as Tony mentioned, u wanna know that u have done all u can to remove variables from your equipment...which means the buck stops with the knuclhead behind the rifle
"Aim small, miss small"



Simon

RAVEN
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#7 Postby RAVEN » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:12 pm

Hi Brett RCBS may well do the job for U but you get what you pay for they would be adequate for producing ammo shooting at that large F-class standard target bull.
I have a set in 7mm Rem Mag if ya interested well for that matter a set of hornady dies as well.
The way to determine the quality of the ammo they produce you need to check run-out :roll:
Cheers
RB

RAVEN
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#8 Postby RAVEN » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:27 pm

Hey TQ the collett dies are great value for the $
Although I am not that familiar with them I have read else where that they can produce good consistent ammo.
Neck tension can play a big part in SD between rounds
U may also have noticed that new brass can shoot extremely well I believe this is due to good neck tension from the soft necks in new brass once fire 2/3/4/5/6/ the malleability changes hopefully consistently???
The advantage with Redding is u have greater control of this tension and a combo of powder type weight of projy primer and consistent uniform cases inside and out helps those darts land in the same spot in a perfect world well that the theory
Cheers
RB

Tony Q
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#9 Postby Tony Q » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:40 pm

Hey Richard ... you know, when it’s a very important shoot like home clubs OPM or Queens I get new brass and use that.

From a physiological point of view it helps (didn’t help me in the last Queens though) … ummm didn’t help me in the last MBRC OPM either, although I did shoot a 60/60 at 500m I lost the plot when drawing for the days agg.

A shoot off was not in my mental thinking!
MBRC F-Class standard ... and proud of it!

B.Scheske
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#10 Postby B.Scheske » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:44 pm

[quote="RAVEN"]Hi Brett RCBS may well do the job for U but you get what you pay for they would be adequate for producing ammo shooting at that large F-class standard target bull.
I have a set in 7mm Rem Mag if ya interested well for that matter a set of hornady dies as well.
The way to determine the quality of the ammo they produce you need to check run-out :roll:
Cheers
RB[/quote]
hi raven
this is true but i'm still printing quarter minute groups at 100yds
and if your not happy with groups like that then the only option is to goto benchrest, but we wont go there!
"Make The First Shot Count!"





Brett

Tony Q
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#11 Postby Tony Q » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:34 pm

Hey Simon, the Redding dies have an independent neck ring that you slip into the die, they come in different sizes so you can vary tension depending on the brass you have.

The neck ring sizes the outer neck only there is no mandrell like the lee collet die.
MBRC F-Class standard ... and proud of it!

Simon C
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Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Adelaide

#12 Postby Simon C » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:44 pm

Ah....hence the issue with neck wall thickness then. Im guessing that that what the bushings are for (ie variation in tension) right?? So if the neck is not concentric in shape b4 sizing, does that have a negative outcome on the tension and concentricity of the neck post sizing?? That's where neck turning comes in as well. I'm learning something now......although I think wiping cases after tumbling, checking for elev pressure signs, cleaning prmer pockets, flash holes and throats, sizing then chamfering is enough brass prep for me!!!! :shock:
"Aim small, miss small"



Simon

RAVEN
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#13 Postby RAVEN » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:30 am

Hi Brett the question you need to ask does it shoot .25moa @ 300 -4-5-6 and so on
Those with varing neck tension will not do this that is Y FBore shooters are so anal about SD
Shooting at a point blank target tells U nothing about what it will do out yonda
My 7mm Rem mag does not group @ 100 but have shot .2MOA @ 300 with the same load
I am not having a go just that
you should always try to get the best out of your equipment and loads

Cheers
RB
P.S. Bruce Moulds (FOX MOULDY) Could tell U alot about reloading

RAVEN
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Location: Adelaide South Australia (CTV)

#14 Postby RAVEN » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:41 am

Oh I forgot to say brett that as the case become work hardned as it will in a standard chamber U will lose that neck tention most dies give about .002
after about 4 - 5 reloads with standard dies I canot get enough tension to hold the bullet sufficiantly hense the redding dies now I can control that also I dont use the expander ball.

The ball expander is set for the final internal diam and as it drags out it can put run-out into the necks I have read that run-out is more important in point blank BR than what we do all the same I prefer not to have any!
:)

pjifl
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Neck resizing/tension

#15 Postby pjifl » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:09 am

FWIW

I did a lot of 223 loading for fullbore shooting - still do.

In my opinion they are a little more critical loading them for long range than 308.

It was not until I had the neck tension really under control that problems dissapeared. You can judge this very well by feel when the expander ball is withdrawn and during seating. It could be that I also changed something else at the same time but really think the neck tension was the main problem.

My problems were always worse with drylube - the expander ball never seemed to work as evenly and sometimes stretched or distorted the case on withdrawal. Now I never use the stuff.


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