SCATT - good idea for novice full bore target shooter?

[Gerard]

Hi Guys,

Im new to full bore target rifle.
I have a .308 and love the challenge of peep sights and shooting prone with a sling.

Im keen to improve my scores and although I have lots of free time, unfortunately I only get to shoot once per week at our local club.
So shooting only 25 shots per week it seems like it may be a very slow road to improvement.

So, in the absence of a local property owner permitting me to target shoot mid week (My preferred option, but I have had no success), I'm looking at other options for practice.

I came across SCATT, they seem to be very expensive but would anyone recommend that as a solution for home practice?
Which system would you recommend (they have several different SCATT systems).
Are there other/better options you would recommend for new shooters?

I can shoot CAT A at home and have a 22lr. So perhaps alternately I should consider buying a small bore target rifle or converting that for practice?

cheers for any advice,
Gerard.

[mike H]

Hi Guys,

Im new to full bore target rifle.
I have a .308 and love the challenge of peep sights and shooting prone with a sling.

Im keen to improve my scores and although I have lots of free time, unfortunately I only get to shoot once per week at our local club.
So shooting only 25 shots per week it seems like it may be a very slow road to improvement.

So, in the absence of a local property owner permitting me to target shoot mid week (My preferred option, but I have had no success), I'm looking at other options for practice.

I came across SCATT, they seem to be very expensive but would anyone recommend that as a solution for home practice?
Which system would you recommend (they have several different SCATT systems).


Are there other/better options you would recommend for new shooters?

I can shoot CAT A at home and have a 22lr. So perhaps alternately I should consider buying a small bore target rifle or converting that for practice?

cheers for any advice,
Gerard.

Gerad,
Try and convince your club mates to allow you to shoot another stage after the official club program is finished.
I know nothing about the SCATT systems.The other thing to try is dry firing at a spot on the wall. In target shooting there are different things to master,you have to be able to fire a good shot,you need an accurate rifle for the discipline you are shooting,you need to understand and be able to read the wind and having a good temperament is important.I hope I haven't put you off,seeing as you are very keen to improve.Persistinence is the key.If you are lucky,maybe an experienced club member will mentor you.Nothing beats experience,keep at it.It will take time,you will enjoy the journey.
Mike.

[johnk]

Systems like Scatt are used by quite a few high level TR competitors, even more shooting smallbore. I recall QRA once did a bulk purchase of a system that was quite a bit less expensive than, but nevertheless quite as useful as Scatt, but I can't recall the name of it. I'll see if I can track it down for you.

[SuperV]

johnk
Post subject: Re: SCATT - good idea for novice full bore target shooter?Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:07 pm
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Systems like Scatt are used by quite a few high level TR competitors, even more shooting smallbore. I recall QRA once did a bulk purchase of a system that was quite a bit less expensive than, but nevertheless quite as useful as Scatt, but I can't recall the name of it. I'll see if I can track it down for you.


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Beam hit is the cheaper system john.

[Gerard]

Thanks for the good advice Mike.
As part of my daily activities (I work from home -> lots of free time) I am indeed doing dry fire exercises.
My local club are very friendly and several people have coached me during the stages, so I'm learning and fortunate there (they definitely have patience for me as a newbie. Not young, just very new to shooting).
Will ask about shooting an extra stage (but I'm aware it does hold people back as at the end of the day we have to put away flags/targets etc.)
I definitely will persevere, I'm enjoying it very very much, despite the poor wind reading ability hahah.. I don't get frustrated (the challenge is excellent).

Johnk & Super V, thanks for the info. I looked up Beam hit and its definitely a lot cheaper but looks little dated.

[budget]

although it is great advice to look at the cheaper option (beam hit) almost always you wish you went for the no 1 product.
i don't and haven't used a scatt before but hopefully their may be plenty of free advice on here.
the #1 thing you need to do is as discussed in dry practice,be really honest with yourself and continually keep building your position.

[pjifl]

I think dry firing on some target at home is always very beneficial as long as you are not reinforcing bad habits.
There is a lot you can do without expensive modern aids.

About 60 years ago I gained a jump start by doing strings of dry firing with a sixpence balanced on the foresight.
Well, that was actually on the far end of the foreend because a 303 has nowhere above the foresight equivalent to modern tunnels.

It must of course stay in place after each shot.

With lighter triggers that should now be too easy so you probably need something less stable.

You do need a dedicated helper to place it each time.

Peter Smith

[Eddy]

Back in the day ... ... I moved from C grade to A in about 3 months, by practicing almost every day with an air rifle down the passage at home ... lunchtime ONLY, when SWMBO wasn't around.

Another trick some old bloke showed me, was dry firing with eyes closed ... sight up, close eyes, trigger, count to 3 then open eyes again. Sights should still be on target.

[Gerard]

Thanks for the good advice guys.

Budget - I totally agree. I have in the past regretted compromise I made on purchases.
So I guess its go with the best SCATT I can afford or nothing here.
Will avoid the Beam systems, as I would soon regret the purchase and want to upgrade.
Due to the price of Scatt I guess its out for now.
I wonder can you hire a system for trial for a few weeks??

Peter & Eddy - I have been doing snap cap/dry firing at home as you describe, balancing coins, eyes closed/natural point of aim and all seems 'ok' but, doesn't always translate into more than minor increments in range day scores, so I'm not sure if I'm re enforcing bad habits, which is very possible.

I also have a CZ ultralux .22lr here and am looking for peep sights to install to help with home practice.
I would really need sights similar to the central sight I have on the Angel. (i.e. turn clockwise for up elevation and clockwise for right windage. I have read some sights are reversed and that would start bad habits..).
I guess you used Peep/Aperture sights on your Air rifle Eddy?

Can anyone recommend sights that would simulate my Central sights and fit on a CZ ultralux with 11mm (3/8) dove tail rail.

Or is it best to find a 22lr small bore target rifle already set up for prone with sling and sights and just buy that??
Anyone selling something like that??

The more I think about it, the combination of using the 308 and dry firing practice in house together with 22lr back paddock live fire is probably the current solution at this point and a decent SCATT (secondhand..?) following that.

[johnk]

Shooting a target rimfire isn't necessarily good practice for fullbore, as the triggers on the latter are usually very light and in no way comparable to a 1 kg fullbore trigger.

[pjifl]

I used a smallbore rifle quite a lot for practice. At one time there were a lot of these going cheap.

Later had a quality 10m Air rifle and made a LH fullbore style stock for it.

The trigger was a problem in that I most definitely did not want to become accustomed to an extremely light trigger so arranged a spring behind the trigger to increase it.

I cannot see the sight adjustment rotation direction being a problem. The sight only needs to be set then left alone for practice. I would shoot 10 shot groups with the air rifle. 3 of these with concentration in an afternoon was enough practice for one day.

What you are really practicing at home is coordination between aiming muscles, trigger muscles, and sighting picture control.
Many think they somehow have to practice to be able to centre a target in a peep and ring sight but some measurements I once did with people who had never used a rifle showed that unless there is something wrong with a person's eyes anyone can aim way better than 1/2 minute and usually better than 1/4 minute if the rifle traverse is under fine machine control. The problem is being able to coordinate small rifle movements with the sight picture to allow tiny muscular corrections.

Finally, do not discount the fact that maybe your barrel is not at its best.

I have seem many times a person struggling with sighting and never being able to read the wind well. Then, with a new barrel, these problems suddenly went away.
Same with ammunition, particularly elevation.

Another nice trick. Have a few dummy cartridges loaded no powder and a dead primer,
Get someone to feed your cartridges into the action occasionally throwing in the dead one.

See how much you jump when it's turn comes ! Especially useful for newer shooters.

Peter Smith.

[Tman]

A number of options here.

Dry firing, in full gear on the floor, with an aiming mark on a wall at a distance if you have the room, paying attention to point of aim when your eyes are open, then closed then open again. Follow through after the shot is important.
Snap caps are useful for this, buy a couple and go from there. a small piece of card with a suitable circle as an aiming mark that can fixed to the wall or other surface at a suitable height is the way to go. Don't forget the lighting on the aiming mark either.

If you dwell too much time on the sight picture, stop and start again, sight picture dwell will only make matters worse and when you are shooting on the range and do this, will result in bigger groups, not smaller ones that you are seeking.
I find if I sight picture dwell for too long, I then stop, look away and start again.

Years ago I took up smallbore as cross-training for fullbore, made an incredible difference, as to me this allows for consolidation of a shooting position, such as placement of your elbows, sling position and tension, the shot process in your mind, obtaining a quick sight picture etc and then repeating this so that it in a way becomes automatic, so that it becomes somewhat like an exercise in rhythm.

Even though the calibres between full-bore and small-bore are different, the shooting process is much the same, the margin of error in small-bore virtually nothing, whereas full-bore is a bit more forgiving, but there are a lot of things that carry across. Other things to consider would be the position on the mound for full-bore as compared to small-bore on a flat surface, the aspect of reading the wind for full-bore as compared to small-bore over 50m etc.

In our club, if people have finished shooting their practice stages for the afternoon, we have the opportunity to then shoot further practice stages until such time as the range closes. Maybe that is the approach that you could put to your club as other members might like to do the same. This is also an opportunity for load development testing etc.

These are my thoughts and observations from some forty years of shooting in TR, Smallbore and since 2010 F Class.

[Gerard]

Thanks TMan,

Was not aware of the negative aspect of dwelling on the sight picture, thank you, will definitely bear that in mind.

I am indeed practicing in full gear at home with snap caps and a well lit target dot on the wall.
The other thing I did was (by dubious calculations) tried to figure out what a 300, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900 yard target would look like at 25yrds. Then drew up dots for each and was able to spend time trying differing ring sizes for each target.
I only started that last week and im not sure that I have the correct dimensions, but it seemed to work at 800yrds.
On the second stage I only dropped two points!! scored 53.3 (which is my personal best). Mind you my score on the first range was a terrible 38.1 LOL

I always do significantly better on the second stage for some (as yet) unknown reason. On this last occasion the only change I made between stages (apart from windage) was reducing the size of the rear aperture, which clarified the aiming point a lot. Perhaps that explains the improvement.

So snap caps & dry firing are helping a lot at my novice stage and also I'm slowly getting used to the discomfort with one EXCEPTION..
I wrap my sling over the forend (mine is wood covered) and that causes the front strap eyelet/loop to turn sideways and protrude further than the handstop toward my index finger. So everytime I fire, the metal eyelet/loop embeds itself hard into the bone in my finger between my large and mid knuckles ...very very sore and I'm concerned that it could end up causing a 'flinch'. Going to try either a heavier/solid glove or make a finger cover (if permitted in the rules). Alternately I may buy a new handstop, as I see QStore sell some that have a space between handstop bung and the strap eyelet.

This is a fantastic sport, I'm loving it!
Thanks to all for the advice.

cheers,
Gerard.