F Class Groups size

Chris Thomas · Post by **Chris Thomas** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:52 am

Hi.

What size groups should a purpose built F Standard .223 produce at 300 Yards. What should i expect

Thanks

Chris

Malcolm Hill · Post by **Malcolm Hill** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:44 am

Hi Chris
With the quality of barrels and components around these days it's not hard to get groups down to around an inch or better (5 shot groups) at 300 yards. It's a matter of careful reloading and playing around with tuning but most purpose built 223's will do it once properly set up.
Regards Malcolm.

Chris Thomas · Post by **Chris Thomas** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:17 pm

Though so. I'm getting close.

Any more news on how the 80 grain Amax is going compared to others

Does the Amax like jump, or in to the lands

Malcolm Hill · Post by **Malcolm Hill** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:44 pm

Chris
I've found the Amax to be the better bullet out of the 3 legal 80 grainers. All three are capable of the same level of accuracy but the Amax works better at the long ranges due to it's higher B.C. No one over my way could get real consistency out of the Sierra's past 800 yards- sometimes they would hold good elevation and sometimes they wouldn"t and every now and then shots out of the group (usually low) would appear. This same problem happened with several different rifles. The Amax doesn't seem to suffer the same problem and seems to be more reliable at the long ranges. I remember reading about some one in the U.S. shooting the Sierra's "accurately" at a measured 1500 yards(or metres) from a 223 at around 2900fps on the 6br website but think that they must have had a very iffy measuring device. I have shot Sierra's for interest sake at Match Rifle and found they wont make 1200yds reliably and the ones that do keyhole through the target. Thats with 3000fps in an 8 inch twist. My opinion is the Amax adds an extra 100yds or so of accurate range to the 223 over either the Sierra or Nosler. When I get the chance i will try the Amax at Match Rifle to test the theory.
Regards Malcolm.

Malcolm Hill · Post by **Malcolm Hill** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:58 pm

Chris
Forgot to mention that all the rifles I load for seem to work with 15 thou jump and one of my old barrels probably had 80 thou or so and still shot ok. It is a matter of trying yours to see what it likes.
regards Malcolm.

RAVEN · Post by **RAVEN** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:38 am

Amax with the polymer tip will have a more consistent BC as apposed to the others brands with inconsistent meplats the down side of mass production.
This would explain those flyers Malcolm
Hence this is Y FO use bullet pointers and Meplat trimmers for the longs and consistant BC becomes more important.
Cheers
RB

Post by **AlanF** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:26 am

RAVEN wrote:...Hence this is Y FO use bullet pointers...

Richard,

Is anyone using the Whidden tool in SA? (I need to know

).

Alan

Woody_rod · Post by **Woody_rod** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:45 am

From watching Bill Hallam, I have not seen the same inconsistency in accuracy over 800y. He has shot entire 3 day events without dropping a point (more than once). I might suggest your rifle and/or reloading might need reviewing. That is of course the shooter never ever makes a mistake. I am pretty sure he uses SMK's.

Alan, I thought using a meplat tool was illegal in AU?

Post by **AlanF** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:24 am

Woody_rod wrote:...Alan, I thought using a meplat tool was illegal in AU?

Illegal in F-Std Rod, but Ok in Open.

RAVEN · Post by **RAVEN** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:59 am

Hi Rod I know Bill is a good shot y doesn’t any one from WA post the results from these OPMs thats some prity amasing marksmanship
What 3 day events has he shot with out dropping a shot ??
I would say it would be an Australian record (but then again you get some nice condition over there don't you.
Bill is from a FO background and I could probably bet you he does some serious bullet batching for the long ranges.
Because SMK's aren’t that perfect out of the box.

Alan its only a rumour

ned kelly · Post by **ned kelly** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:49 pm

G'Day All,
Bill is also from a BR background has has represented Aust at the World BR championships at least once. He also lived in the US for several years and came back to be an even tougher competitor as a result.

So I guess you could say he knows accuracy and how to get it and use it.

Cheerio Ned

Cameron Mc · Post by **Cameron Mc** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:48 pm

I think it was on Palmer Target, not the FO target.

Still good shooting though.

I have not heard of a one day 3 range possible on the FO target. 300 out of 300

Cameron

RDavies · Post by **RDavies** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:24 am

A question on the 80gn A max. I have just bought a Remington 223 which I,m told has a Tikka 8" twist barrel. Will the 80gn A Max stabilize in an 8" twist or does it need a 7" ? They seem to be longer than the 80gn Sierras.

Chris Thomas · Post by **Chris Thomas** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:58 am

Mine is a Lawton and it's a 7.5 twist i'm told.

I'm sure the Amax would work in a true 8 twist. I can send you some Amax if you would like to try some.

I used SMK's last week and elevation seemed a little better than the A Max. I will give the Amax one more run this weekend and try a 15 jump, just touching and 10 thou in and see how they go. Looks like though from the testing we have done i will be swapping over to the SMK's.

Regards

Chris

Woody_rod · Post by **Woody_rod** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:50 am

On Bill's shooting, one event I know of specifically was the WA Long Range Champs last last year. We were shooting on the Palma type targets. Seeing as it is so much easier, how come people dont shoot possibles all the time?

He was shooting in FO at the time using a 6mm of some sort, and a Panda action from memory.

I think you guys in the east are lucky he doesnt travel much. Like Ned says, he knows accuracy and knows how to shoot. This does prove the point that just looking at accuracy is only one part of what is required.