F Class no longer a "Queens "

[Chopper]

Forgive me , but the whole State , and NRAA, and Commonwealth rules and regulations went out the door years ago when we became regulated with our state firearms licencing years ago, I think it is a mess that no one can explain , or I dont understant , Its FAR FAR AWAY from the ORIGIN of our shooting, that is why I ask , Who owns the NRAA ? I dont undestand ? I see annual profit and losses from clubs and state , but not NRAA, Where do I see these , can some one fill me in ? Chop

[AlanF]

...As a company's board of directors ultimately answers to the shareholders (S&T Assns in the case of the NRAA) that is why I think we should be pursuing this through the aforesaid S&T Assns.

Barry

Do that as well by all means Barry, but when something very silly is done by a group of our fellow shooters who happen to be members of the NRAA Board, then they need to hear our anger directly. Various watered down versions from the S&Ts in a few months time are not going to have the required impact. In some situations, the structure of our organisation is frustratingly ineffective.

[bsouthernau]

Various watered down versions from the S&Ts in a few months time are not going to have the required impact.

That may well be the case but I fear that petitioning the NRAA directly will have NO impact at all although there is certainly nothing to be lost by doing it. I also don't see WHY any communications from the S&Ts should be watered down. We need to get the master-servant relationship straight here. The S&Ts don't operate in thrall to the NRAA. The NRAA directors are the servants of the S&Ts who should be told by THEIR members (who are actual people - us) to express their disapproval in no uncertain terms.

[AlanF]

...I fear that petitioning the NRAA directly will have NO impact at all...

If it appears to have no impact on the NRAA i.e. they ignore it, then that will only up the ante, and what happens next could have a MAJOR impact on the NRAA.

[DannyS]

Ok, so a boycott of the National Queens, easy for some of us that won't get there, but harder for those closer, but maybe that's the way we have to go. F class is here to stay at the moment and like TR, we may have to step aside in the future for something else, so be it. Sorry, but the NRAA is not just about TR any longer.

Cheers
Danny

[jasmay]

I have been shooting Fclass for a little over 2 years, I think I have achieved quite a bit in that time frame, yet the recognition one gets for their efforts is dismal. Not that I do it for that reason, but at times, when you see how the top TR shooters are paraded around, and the way we are continually snubbed, it does play on ones mind.

Personally, I have not fired a shot since Northarm OPM, I visited the range on the weekend spoke to a few people, and the stuff I heard certainly didn't encourage me to get down for a shot. Now, this is someone that, without tooting my own horn, has achieved quite a bit on in a short time not only on the national platform but at a world level. B Grade National champion 2012, 2 medals from the USA in 2012, a gold and silver from the 2013 Fclass world championships to mention a few.

Now with the above in mind, I almost couldn't be bothered shooting locally due to the disarray and political garb we face, we are not encouraged by anyone but our own kind. And people wonder why new shooters don't hang around?

The soon ner we stand on our own feet, and perhaps have our own elected unofficial council to look at ways of improving the local sport the better in my opinion. I think we should NOt fear what "might" happen if we distance ourselves from TR in the short term, I think we should embrace it, and I feel trough this it will eventually lead us back to a more formalized and and even footed relationship with TR.

If existing highly performing shooters (and I am not the only one) are waining from the discipline webcam to ask ourselves what the heck is going on!!

[williada]

Disunity is death. It would appear the movement is subject to the agenda of others and wedge politics where the goal is to weaken participation in shooting sports and again we could be faced with losing our ranges as was the case in the Howard era, when our political capital was threatened.

Back then, and I come out , it was me that put a Victorian case to the Minister of Defence in Canberra to preserve our access to ranges in the transition to State control where there was danger of their disposal and brokered the initial meeting with Defence, Victorian Conservation and Sustainability Department and the VRA. At the time I felt the NRAA was not responsive enough but as Victorians we had enough political capital and data to support a case and so took the initiative to preserve our own backyard knowing we were an entity in our own right. The VRA Councillors were always in the loop and I am sure the intervention secured other ranges around the country as agendas were reset.

The approach of the NRAA is short sighted because their very actions are excluding people which will weaken the political capital of the shooting movement. I’m sure people of wisdom and influence could reach an arrangement with usage of the word “Queens” if red herrings of legal impediment and traditions are put up. Was it not archers who shot for the “Kings Prize” in medieval England?

Like Barry, I feel we should use the structures that are in place to change the guard if our interests are not being served and that depends on how many like-minded people there are who will follow through on the job. So I am not in favour of boycotts etc as the themes can so easily be turned to political disadvantage.

[ShaneG]

I began shooting F class about 7 years ago in an attempt to gain a better understanding of wind reading to help with long range field shooting. Now the more I shoot the less I seem to know?
However my mirage reading in the field is much improved!
I digress and waffle - my experience over the 7 years is that we have a divisive sport in that the hierarchy is dominated by TR or retired TR.
After my experience of Raton in 2013 I predicted that one day Australia would move to an F Class only Nationals.
From a personal point of view that is the best future for F Class!
We are partly there with F Class National Teams separate. Just tag on the individual Championships! For the first time we have the International discipline of F/TR recognised by the NRAA?
TR badge numbers/ disportionate prizes / disportionate sponsorship of overseas teams - we have all seen it and it can't go on forever.
I have to point out that the obvious however - what ranges will be able to compete upon? With a separate entity F Class. Insurance can be overcome rather easily.
To move ahead we need proportionate representation on the NRAA and all state bodies.
That won't happen overnight but if we wish to remain one entity then some of us need to get off our butts and become political!
That is the only way we may have a fair say and remain "unified"?
I have enjoyed the company of many TR shooters but to be honest shooting a comp with a target of F only is lower stress and more enjoyable for me.
Many will silently agree I reckon but some will also bay for blood after such comments.
Let's see where the journey of F Class in Australia takes us and the next big challenge of 2017 Connaught.
Thanks to Alan F for providing such a public free speech forum!
Shane

[Norm]

I have no issue with TR shooters, they seem to be a nice bunch of people and we seem to get along quite well when shooting during a competition.
This may simply be a few individuals pushing their own agenda, I don’t think that it would reflect the view of the majority of TR shooters.

Maybe those few pushing for this change feel threatened by the growth in F-Class shooting over recent years? Maybe they think that it is time for us to leave the nest and fend for ourselves?
Whatever the reason, this obvious conflict at a high level, is no good for the sport. We need to be seen need to be unified and moving forward in the same direction, even if we are not.

There is two ways to fix this. 1. Vote out those that are causing the problem, or 2. Split the groups so that there is no conflict.

It is obvious that the main area of conflict between TR and F-Class shooting, is at major events. You don’t see it at minor club shoots etc.
You don’t see any obvious conflict between the administration of TR shooting and 1000 yard Benchrest shooting.
You don’t see any obvious conflict between the administration of TR shooting and Match Rifle Shooting.
Why? Because they don’t interact on the grand stage. There is no clashing for “Pride and Glory” on the day of the big event.

Maybe the only way for TR and F-Class to get along, is to hold a “Queens” for TR shooters, and at a different time and place, hold a ‘Championship” for F-Class shooters.
This way the TR shooters can have their “Queens Prize” and all the glory can be directed at TR. They won’t have to share the lime light with anyone else.
F-Class shooters can then do their own thing and advance this more popular form of shooting without being held back by a few retarded people.

[Norm]

And another thing!

If TR and F-Class hold different championship events. It opens the door to people that would like to shoot in both events.
At the present time a person must choose what discipline to shoot in. TR of F-Class, as they are both shot on the same day.
Split the events and a shooter can then attend both events and enjoy more shooting at a high level.

[TOM]

Before we start wanting separate events for each class, has anyone thought that maybe neither class can survive without each other at this point in time? I have never once met a T/R shooter that wants to shoot F class at a major event, same goes for an F classer wanting to shoot target rifle, on the most part we are a very different breed of shooter.

Be very bloody careful with what you wish for, you might destroy it all!

[RDavies]

Before we start wanting separate events for each class, has anyone thought that maybe neither class can survive without each other at this point in time? I have never once met a T/R shooter that wants to shoot F class at a major event, same goes for an F classer wanting to shoot target rifle, on the most part we are a very different breed of shooter.

Be very bloody careful with what you wish for, you might destroy it all!

I think some F class shooters are getting a bit too big for their boots too early. How many F Class shooters are there currently organising large scale events and all it entails, from organising large numbers of markers, caterers, prizes, presenters etc etc. Yes, there are some forward thinking F Class shooters who are looking at organising events (which I think is great), but until they have some experience in actually putting a big event together, I think the idea of a large scale F Class only Nationals is a little premature for now.

[Chopper]

Why not just leave it be while its growing and going ahead,just adjust the prize money , with out FC , propping up , it could be sad, its clear as a bell and the stats show it , has any one got some stats on the growth of Fc from say from ten years ago ? ratio ? FC has with out a doubt has kept the numbers up on the old so called FB ranges ,Chop

[Chopper]

For those that want to hang on to the past , go shoot in the 303 matches, with all due respect, soon enough there will be 308 matches , and like 303 , No Queens badges, things are going a head , I started with 303, then 308 conversion, now a scope , thats the way its going ,and it want stop,Chop

[Chopper]

Long live the Queen , after that , lets see what happens, Chop