Scope Size?

Adrian351 · Post by **Adrian351** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:25 pm

Hey All,

Newbie here so go easy on me!

I'm just building up a rifle to do some f-class style shooting. I'm building up a Remington 700 in 308 with 26" varmint barrel and aftermarket stock.

My head is just spinning trying to chose a scope!

I'd like tactical style knobs and a mil-dot reticle and I'll have a 20MOA base.

I'm looking at quite a few, but what magnification would people recommend for those 600-1000 yard shots? I'm thinking at least 32, but do those 42 monsters help out much?

I can order one from the US this week and have someone bring it over, so theres quite a saving there compared to here. Looking at about $1000-1500.

I've looked at Bushnell, Leatherwood, Nightforce....

Thanks for your advice,
Adrian

Cameron Mc · Post by **Cameron Mc** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:35 pm

Adrian

Buy the best you can afford. With $1500 you should get a Nightforce BR.

Now power choice is up to you. I would go 8-32x 56 or you can go 12-42 x56.

I use 8-32x nightforce and always shoot on 24x power. The higher powers magnify the mirage. At 24x depth of field is much better too.

Just my opinion.

Cameron

M12LRPV · Post by **M12LRPV** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:50 pm

If you can afford it then Nightforce is the go but you won't really save anything trying to get one from the states.

Also be careful when choosing your reticle. Some of them can get very cluttered. The mil dot may not be the best choice.

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:55 pm

Adrian,

I suggest that you don't handicap yourself with mil dots or the like. At best, you're only liable to use the two nearest the intersection of the cross hairs, so the rest are so much christmas tree decoration. At worst, one dot hold off is a pretty coarse aim off anyway; most shooters I talk to know how to aim off in ¼ MOA increments or better. The rest wind their scope knobs. In that circumstance, mil dots can be a distraction. Having said that, you'll find that the plain crosshairs on the Nightforce BR range of scopes are a tad fine for all condition F class shooting so you might consider one of the less fussy reticules like the NP-R2.

Tactical knobs have a lot going for them as far as visibility is concerned, but the down side is that they aren't protected with caps like target knobs are, which can be an issue on dusty ranges like Ungarie.

One scope that you haven't mentioned is the Sightron 8-32. I have no personal experience with that model (I do use a fixed 36x for 1000 yard benchrest), but a few of my US friends have a lot of positives to say about it.

Incidentally, there a quite a few shops selling the 8-32 Nightforce BR for $1450 here right now.

We're maybe not helping all that much....

John

Adrian351 · Post by **Adrian351** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:48 am

Thanks very much for your quick responses!

No, your advice has been real good.

Looks like I'll persue a 32x scope.

I read somewhere last week that there's no point being able to get up close to a target (magnification) if you can't see it!

I didn't realise NF did those nice MOA reticles.....I'm sold! and like you mentioned, all the windage is taken out in the scope anyway, so no need for lots of christmas tree frills out to the edge of the FOV. That NP-R2 is nice. Some of the reticles I looked at this week have real fat lines too, but they look nice and thin.

The 32x NF BR's in the US are AU$1424 so that other price in Oz is very good. That same scope in tactical version is about AU$2050 over there....quite a jump from BR price.....so I might have to shop around here!

........plus that 42x scope only has 42MOA of vertical adjustment which could be a little limiting at longer ranges.....even with a 20MOA base? I think roughly 40MOA up is req'd for 1000 yards?

Thanks guys, I appreciate your guidance.

Adrian351 · Post by **Adrian351** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:18 am

Sightron SIII 8-32x56 looks like a great scope for the $$$ with good reviews.

So it just has those nice semi-tactical style knobs, but with the addition of nice covers too?

Just not sure about the centre dot reticle vs a nice cross hair??

At max power it's 1/4 MOA wide.

Post by **AlanF** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:47 am

Adrian,

Dots are good if you always aim at the middle and adjust the knobs for windage. However if you aim off the centre, then they're not a lot of use - some would say an unnecessary distraction. Scope specs are very much a personal preference, so don't be swayed too much by anyone who says you MUST do this or the other. One thing I always say is to get a good quality scope first up if you can (and that means in the vicinity of $1000 or more) - because if you take the sport seriously, you'll end up with one not too far down the track.

Alan

M12LRPV · Post by **M12LRPV** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:59 am

+1 on what Alan said regarding the dot. I have a 1/8th dot and love it but i'm a knob twiddler

For holding off or non circular targets it's a problem.

With regards to the elevation adjustments it comes down to what rifle you'll be putting it all on and the bullets you'll be using. A 20MOA rail gets you most of the way there.

Just to put some real figures out there for you, my 223 has the following wind ups from 100m to 800m

69gr Sierra 35.75 MOA
77gr Nosler 29 MOA
80gr Nosler 24.5 MOA
75gr Amax 23.75 MOA
80gr Amax 22.5 MOA

Adrian351 · Post by **Adrian351** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:00 am

Found the oz based NVT website today....unreal prices on some scopes....especially Nightforce.

With their member discounts, it's actually cheaper to buy it here! It is very rare to get US stuff here at a cheaper price!

I think my favourite scope is the NF 8-32x56 with an NP-R2 reticle. It's the uncluttered one with MOA markings and that scope has great optics and has 65MOA vertical adjustment which is heaps.

They come in right on AU$2000......suppose a few more pesos won't hurt

As mentioned, it's more economical to go straight for the one I'd get next anyway....makes the back pocket less painful!

Thanks

sixmill · Post by **sixmill** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:51 am

I don't think you can get nightforce out of the states anyway, they don't allow it. Anyway there cheaper here which is surprising, QGE has the NF scopes at very good prices, however if you can get a NXS under $2G your doing well.

John E · Post by **John E** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:13 pm

Pro Cal Trading has Nightforce at very reasonable prices, and Peter Van Meurs is a sponsor of this site. Why not give him a call.

John

Adrian351 · Post by **Adrian351** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:32 am

Got a pic back from my local gunsmith today......ready for running in! This is my first rifle so I'm getting all excited!

As mentioned, it's a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in 308 (26" barrel with 1:12 twist) and I've put it on a Choate stock - nice aluminium bedding block and fully floated. Tweaked the trigger and fitted a nightforce 20MOA picatinny rail.....but just have an average scope at the moment to get it run in.

None of my local gunshops have any decent match ammo....seems to be slim pickings these days. I got some 168gr Hornady Amax's and mail ordered some Lapua 155gr Scenars along with some fresh Lapua brass. I'll also try some 155/168gr Sierra MK's whenever they get some in just to see which work best.

Just came across an Oz projectile manufacturer last night called Predator Projectiles in Vic. They CNC their own match ammo which looks like a solid copper alloy? Anyone used these before?

http://www.predatorprojectiles.com.au/h ... tiles.html

My question is they only seen to come in 178gr in 308 and they recommend a 1:10 barrel. Could I get a way with trying them in my 1:12? They look like darts!

Thanks again guys.

Quick · Post by **Quick** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:15 pm

Adrian, Ive seen the predator projectiles aswell. You will need a 1:10" twist rate of you barrel as the bullets are 40mm long and they have a high BC. Email Bruce Wellington and ask him for his opinion, but Ive talked to Bruce on the subject many times and he thinks that a 1:10" twist barrel is a must.

Hes a good bloke to deal with. Willing to help out newbies like myself.

Adrian351 · Post by **Adrian351** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:59 pm

Hi Quick,

Thanks mate. Yeah, I just got a reply from Bruce today and as you said, the 1:12 doesn't spin those heavy bullets enough to give the required stability.

.....so I'll be stickin with 155-168's. They look like they'd be good on 1/2" steel though

Cheers

Hilly-WA · Post by **Hilly-WA** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:46 pm

Adrian, Nice looking rifle there....