260 brass formed from 308 Lapua Palma brass

[Brad Y]

David, I started with cci450's and 2209 in an improved 260 case design (not an ackley) and it worked well. The rifle was competitive with just about anything you could care to put against it. Didn't try it on lighter duty primers. 2213 I had good results from though it did carbon heavily.

[KHGS]

Will work o.k. but the fire-formed cases will be short & you will get a severe carbon ring in the front end of the chamber neck. A better option is to neck up Lapua .243 brass, no doughnut that way either. I have never seen an issue with std large primers in .260. I also agree with the thoughts of others that this case may be beyond the limits of the small rifle with the slower powders used. It may work fine most or some of the time, but is likely to be inconsistant.
Keith H.

[BRETT B]

I have put 3500 rounds through my 260AI with Palma Brass in the last 12 months and have had no issues at all !!! I have seen no evidence of bad ignition from the small primer (CCI 450) in hot or cold conditions. The cases do end up about 25 thou shorter than a 260 case but i have never had any carbon rings build up in the chamber and i check with my borescope after every cleaning.

I have necked up 243 brass but IMHO it it worse for getting a donut and unless you run a tight neck you end up with a lot of neck clearance.
When you form from 308 the long neck of the 308 becomes part of the shoulder and is very uniform thickness, also if you neckturn prior to fireforming you end up with the cut well into the shoulder once formed . I have cases here shot 15 times and the cut is still visible on the shoulder so no donut to speak of. Accuracy is as good as anything I have seen and the plus is primer pockets stay tight for ever!!

Brad Y could probably back up the consistent accuracy with the Palma Brass in my 260AI...

[johnk]

Following Keith's views, I can craft great FS loads with either Lapua .308 case & the powder of choice (2206), but I've never been able to get the Palma case's SR primers to fire up N550 worth a damn, even though my best loads with the big primer are with PMC Russian. I suspect, but can't be bothered researching it further, that the coating on the double based powder is the issue, or the relative speed of the two powders.

[BRETT B]

Thats interesting John , As i can light up R22 no problem and that is double based ..

Ive got some VV565 at home , I might give it a run and see what happens..

[KHGS]

Following Keith's views, I can craft great FS loads with either Lapua .308 case & the powder of choice (2206), but I've never been able to get the Palma case's SR primers to fire up N550 worth a damn, even though my best loads with the big primer are with PMC Russian. I suspect, but can't be bothered researching it further, that the coating on the double based powder is the issue, or the relative speed of the two powders.

Hence the inconstancies I spoke of, Bret B has had good results, but Johnk has not Some slow powders ignite easier than others, so do not be fooled. I am not a fan of anything borderline or "on the ragged edge" if it works for you then power to you, but you may go down this rout & find it doesn't work for you, you just need to be aware of the risk, hence my original post.
Keith H.

[williada]

Brett, I am very interested in those tight primer pockets. You and Brad seem to have your gear sorted in relation to the powder column in your hotter WA environment, so I'm thinking the wick might light well with the powder you guys are using there. Being a bit of a conservative bloke though, Keith puts a strong argument, as does John's experience which I have heard before. So I was thinking maybe a magnum primer would still solve any inconsistencies and preserve those precious primer pockets because the brass is so expensive. Also, I have a truckload of these primers bought for another bit of gear long ago I want to utilize. Maybe Quick has used them in 6/6.5 x 47 improved? If that is not moving too far off thread topic?

If anyone has used the magnum primers, did this improve or detract from performance on the target?

[RDavies]

I am another one who had inconsistent results with a 6-6.5/47, especially if I ever tried 2213sc or N165 in it. Even with 2209, I would get the occasional low velocity shot. I know some have great results with their same calibres, so maybe they had a better firing pin/spring combination or something??
I am wondering if the reason that 6.5x47s have a more consistent reputation is that they often use faster burning, maybe easier to ignite 2208. Could it be that the slower starting, heavier 6.5mm pills allow pressure to build more equally than with lighter, faster bullets, over coming slightly borderline ignition???
I have minimal ballistics knowledge, so others out there who actually know what they are talking about might be able to correct me. I tried various different primers in my 6mms, but the firing pin/spring has since been improved.

[Razer]

Quote:
If anyone has used the magnum primers, did this improve or detract from performance on the target?

David, I have been using Palma brass since its inception here.
I did a fair bit of searching on US forums and found a site where the author tested the various SR Mag primers in Palma brass.
The outcome was highly in favour of CCI 450 so, that is what I use.
Although only shooting FS, so therefore limited to 2208(or 2206H) I find that lighting up 46.4 grs 2208 no problem and ignition seems to be consistent based on results.
In 2007 I was using 2206H in HPS brass and PMC LR Mag primers and water-lined the target at 1000yds(kept sighters for a straight 60) but found that I was getting fouling problems in the corner of the lands so, traded in my 2206H for a part payment on a new barrel. Whether the problem was the result of the Mag primer and 2206H or, just 2206H I never pursued it further, just stopped using 2206H.(It was a brilliant load apart from the hard carbon issue).
The one odd feature that I found with Palma brass is that when first used, the primer seats with minimum effort, but, once fired the seating actually requires considerable more effort from then on!(the pocket actually gets tighter).
I do not use anything on the primer pocket accept a Dremal SS brush to polish the pocket and, the brass is only ever neck sized.
I am actually a lazy re-loader, keeping all preparation to the minimum and concentrate on exact propellant weight and seating depths to achieve consistency.
Ray.

[williada]

Thanks Rod, you can certainly minimise variable ignition if the spring pressure is not up to scratch and those small primers like a finer pin head which is easily sleeved if its a bit sloppy in the bolt head. On the other hand, if the powder column poses a problem the powder needs to burn more efficiently.

In the past, I tackled this problem with a compressed load or tighter neck seating. From a smithing perspective, the poms tend to go with a long throat to give powder time to burn in thirty cal. and in a completely opposite approach I increased leed angle and jammed the pills which also induced a bit of positive compensation and reduced in bore yaw which I have written about before which Obermyer used and now recently dug up by Tony was confirmed practice by Jim Boatright.

But the simple solution without regrinding reamers could be to look at the primer types if there are problems with these powders. My backround is really limited to thirty cal, and .223 and you guys have serious experience with other gear which I am transitioning to. David.

ps

Thanks for that info Ray, I just caught that post as I had completed the above. Really interesting about the tight pockets and that's a key objective of mine but the carbon issue ???. I think what I am hearing, that there are a few variables that need further separate examination. Just might have to tinker. Cheers David.

[Brad Y]

I took the gun to tassie and for the national teams and was more than happy with the results there as well. It held great vertical, as did Bretts rifle.

Would do another in a heartbeat.

[williada]

Brad,
Cooler Tassie. O.K. Were you using full case capacity, firm seating pressure and jam? David.

[Quick]

I only used CCI450 in my 6x47L Improved and same now with my 7mm08AI. No ignition issues at all and I use both double based and single based powders. Both shoot very good vertical. I use Palma brass in 7mm08AI and have done around 10 firings in 48 cases already and no issues at all. My 6x47L brass was the same. No issues. I also use CCI450 in my 308 FS barrel with Palma brass aswell. I dont mind paying as its very strong brass.

My loads with 2209 in the 6x47L (non-improved) with 2209 shot very well and not a compressed load. Same with my 7mm08AI with 2209 its not compressed and good ignition.

[Brad Y]

David yes to the jam, never varied tension or charge between WA and Tas. 43.2gr I used, mild load with plenty of case capacity for more. It used to shoot 140hybrids and 140vld into same poi at 900m- did this at a state practice with plenty of onlookers. Was just one of those special barrels I think.

[ned kelly]

G'day All,
I did seriously consider a straight 7-08 on the 308Palma brass shooting 162gn Amax's but have recently abandoned the idea due to too many projects and lack of available time.

However, I intended to use the CCI450 primers as they have been excellent in my 22BR and 6x47 Lapua. My reasoning was with the slower powder (2209) in the 6x47 I wanted to ensure it got going well and with a small magnum primer combined with a small flash hole it would (hopefully) push right up the centre of the powder column for proper ignition. I cant prove it but it sure does shoot brilliantly.
Also if people are having success with the 308 and the Palma brass it stands to reason that any smaller calibre formed from it should also work well.

FWIW, I use a bushing 2 thou smaller than a loaded round, neck turn, uniform primer pocket and deburr the flash hole, use moly and jam my bullets around 10 thou. This process seems to work in all the rifles and barrels I've used or helped to set up; 223 (many), 22BR, 22-250, 6PPC (many), 6BR (2), 6x47Lap (2).

Anyway food for thought...
Cheerio Ned