National Teams

DaveMc · Post by **DaveMc** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:36 am

I see both sides of the coin clearly here. NQ would not have been able to field a 10 shooter team in either discipline in Tassie. Not because we don't have the shooters but the tyrrany of distance means far fewer willing to travel (And I realise the reverse happened last year - would Victoria, NSW and SA have fielded 10+2 teams to Mackay last year??). I see little point in having a National State competition with 2 or 3 teams.

On the other side I think larger teams and certainly two (+) coordinated coaches are something we must focus on if we wish to have a shot at retaining the FCWC in Canada. We are lucky to have had significant TR experience in the coaching camps this year. Particularly for the open team Dave S's experience at State level TR coaching helped get us on track (That and a HUGE amount of work and training and a bunch of the best shooters in the country). We need to have F class coaches around the country practicing coordinated coaching. We NEED to build the next generation of coaches and teams that know how to coordinate zeros and work together to get on top of the wind and elevation issues. We are the world champions but we need a skills building program of events to have shot at retaining the title.

Perhaps there is room for a compromise; Keep the 5 man shooter format for the majority of the event but have an extra stage or two with 6-8 shooters and 2 (or 3) coaches. This may not have to be a "STATE" competition but held at same event (post or PRE). That way two small teams (e.g. WA, NQ, NT or even some other local F classers) can join forces to compete if necessary??? Maybe we could encourage some state vs state friendly competitions at other times where neighbours (e.g. Qld vs North Qld, Qld vs NSW, NSW vs Vic, Vic vs SA) could get together occasionally - far less travel and more likely to field a larger team. WA (and others) could possibly have mixed FS and FO and compete district vs district etc....

bartman007 · Post by **bartman007** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:50 am

When state cricket teams compete against each other in Australia, do they allow for a non-state team to compete?

If the competition brief was changed to be an Open Team's event, then I see merit in allowing any combination of individuals to create teams and solicit sponsorship. It could make for a very strong competition!!!

Until then, I feel we should continue with the State Team approach that has been in place for many years now.

DaveMc · Post by **DaveMc** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:57 am

No but we do have prime ministers 11, barbarian teams, world cricket teams etc in other competitions. The state teams works well, has a history and is going strong and building towards full state participation so should be left alone. We have a need for other events though (and far easier to hold it alongside the state teams than at another time completely)

flatlina · Post by **flatlina** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:23 am

When this problem? popped up in IPSC Pistol Nationals many years ago what we did was have a Gold & Silver Team. This gave the other shooters a shot and also the experience of competition at the top level. The only down side is the extra trophies if these are allocated to the Silver Team.

Regards
john

gone · Post by **gone** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:15 am

National 5 person teams (separate to the event state teams event) held in conjunction with either the national queens each year or further and in the alternative a different Queens every year would be a fantastic idea. It would really help develop coaching and new shooters and give us more teams shooting. As far as developing for the next world championships it would be a great step forward.

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:36 am

Canberra has the Tiverton cup at the ACT Queens - 4 person teams in all disciplines.

Cheers

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:59 am

QRA has the State of Origin in FS & FO.

aaronraad · Post by **aaronraad** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:08 pm

What about trying to open up the District Rifle Association (DRA) shooting matches first to include other 'Clubs' or teams? I assume that QLD isn't the only State that runs the DRA matches?

The DRA teams match could still be contested between member clubs for the annual pennant. Just need to record a separate result on the day for the teams that also nominate for the Open Teams category.

It's normally only 2 ranges shot over the afternoon. Maybe it would give shooters that enjoy shooting team events an opportunity when they don't necessarily have the resources available at the time to make a State or National team.

Cricket clubs do intra & inter state tours, if not international without the need for a state or national body to make an approval. It would be great to see a team of shooters do an 8 week tour of the famous shooting ranges in the UK, Europe or the US. I'm sure there is a better chance of shooting Bisley on a Saturday than taking centre wicket at Trent Bridge.

gone · Post by **gone** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:13 am

higginsdj wrote:Canberra has the Tiverton cup at the ACT Queens - 4 person teams in all disciplines.

Cheers

How long has it been for all codes? i was not there this year but last year I was sure it was TR only. I normally would have tried to get a team together if it had of been open to f class shooters.

Daryl

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:16 am

this is an area where nraa and state assns. could come into modern times.
everything we do can be regarded as a product, be it our ranges, our clubs, our queens, and team shoots.
a product should be easy for people to acquire, to be successful.
as things now stand it is the opposite, where things are hard to acquire.
surely more teams = more product sold = greater success in many measurements.
should a bronze team beat a gold team, then it is just a wakeup call.
just a thought,
bruce.

Bindi2 · Post by **Bindi2** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:51 pm

BM you are right. How do new shooters and coaches acquire the skills if there is no competition for them to get started in. The days when team shoots are on there is usually spare targets fill the range up with makeup teams THERE JUST MIGHT BE SOME UNDISCOVERED TALENT.

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:44 pm

bindi,
no point in an empty range.
as you say, talent discovery, talent development, experimental techniques,
financial efficiency of running events etc is only part of it.
keep safe,
bruce.

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:31 am

Daryl B wrote:
higginsdj wrote:Canberra has the Tiverton cup at the ACT Queens - 4 person teams in all disciplines.

Cheers

How long has it been for all codes? i was not there this year but last year I was sure it was TR only. I normally would have tried to get a team together if it had of been open to f class shooters.

Daryl

Hi Daryl,

Sorry, couldn't tell you - this was my first ACT Queens but all discipliens (that actually entered) were catered for. Although FTR was not officially catered for, results were offered based on FTR compliance.

http://www.canberrarifleclub.org.au/?page_id=179

Cheers

David

DaveMc · Post by **DaveMc** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:29 am

bruce moulds wrote: talent discovery, talent development, experimental techniques, ..... keep safe,
bruce.

This is the point I was trying to make. Whilst the TR teams have a reasonably adequate program to bring coaches and shooters through with guidance, mentoring and practice at teams events - F class really does not.

Although we are the world champions we really have a very limited program to 1) Search for, 2) train and 3) develop (mentor) the next round of coaches and team shooters. We still really learn to shoot as individuals (Most F class shooting is done on an individual basis) and coaches get no opportunities to work together to use each other and all the rifles on the mound to try and grasp the condition. We do get some (although limited) 4 and 5 man single coach team events.

If we want to have a shot at a) defending our world title and b) grabbing the FTR one as well then we need to consider this and put things in place now.

I personally think even a four shooter / 2 coach shooting format offers some of the stuff we are missing in preparation and training in the current program. This could easily be catered for at same time as the State teams. A few 5+1 events and some 4+2 would be adequate. Keep the 5+1 format and current trophies going but also introduce some "multi coach" scenarios Possibly before or after State teams event (even on the practice day??). Alternatively (as suggested) just before or after the Nationals in Brisbane where they definitely have enough targets. Of course clubs and districts need to have some lead up events as well.