johnk wrote:We'll see if Lapua remains inexpensive now that NIOA, not Custers have the franchise.
I'm sure our NRAA negoitiators when sourcing supplies and talking in excess of 500,000 projectiles a year can get a pretty good price on the Lapua Scenars. They may well end up cheaper than the HBCs!
I think Ian's onto something. The Scenars would be a good option for us and especially if they can be had for $37/100.
I also agree with Sambo re the level playing field. I couldnt believe the price and set ups of some TR rifles I saw at a OPM a few weeks ago. Quite a few TR rifles worth more then my rifle w/ scope.
Do you people honestly believe that projectiles of equal quality are going to be lots of cents different in price? and I put the emphasis on " Equal Quality "
If I was making a projectile which is claimed to be as good as a Berger ( for instance ) I'd put my price up too.
Barry
Barry Davies wrote:Do you people honestly believe that projectiles of equal quality are going to be lots of cents different in price? and I put the emphasis on " Equal Quality " If I was making a projectile which is claimed to be as good as a Berger ( for instance ) I'd put my price up too. Barry
Not quite sure what you are on about Barry but it is still early in the morning over here, please explain.
The Ballistician for Berger Bullets, (Bryan Litz) tested both the Lapua Scenars and the HBCs and they are the same BC. The quality of the Lapuas is second to none. The Berger 155gr VLD (also 155.5gr & 155gr hybrid) all sell for $57.00/100. The price I quoted on the Scenars should have read $36.00/100 as I initially quoted the moly coated projectiles.
The Berger 155gr Hybrids have a slightly higher BC but a much higher price and I think should also be allowed along with any 155-155.5gr bullet in FS and TR. Dont get upset as its only my opinion but with this HBC fiasco and lack of supply maybe my thoughts will become mainstream?
Ian
Last edited by IanP on Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ian, Barry's point is that if the Scenars are as good as the Bergers, why are they cheaper. If Lapua thought their projectiles were as good as the Bergers then why aren't they in the same price bracket. In this world you generally get what you pay for. So either the quality of the Scenar doesn't match the Berger in some respect or Lapua are too stupid to price their product with like products. Or the Bergers are priced on name rather than quality maybe, who knows.
From my understanding they are all rolling out of the press at about the same cost. But with the recent restructure I too fear the price will soon approach that of the Bergers so it may be a null point anyway.
Those of you with no experience on the Scenars should give them a try. 155gr 308 Scenar holds a pretty impressive 600 yard 5 shot record group (0.386 inches - see their promo video). Better than anything I have heard of in any caliber. I have also seen plenty of fantastic groups and recently F class scores with them. During load development here there was a dozen 3 shot groups that could be covered by a 5 c coin at 300 yards(across several batches). I must point out I have seen this with Berger and a batch of HBC as well but more importantly in our limited range testing they held together for full strings of 12 shots at the long ranges holding superb waterline. They are a very high quality bullet and visually the most consistent of all brands and with the small amount of long range testing we have done seem to have a very consistent BC to match.
It would be nice if one of Europe's most popular 308W projectiles got approval from the NRAA for inclusion along with the Bergers, etc. Lapua went on a super consistency campain long before Berger and Hornady decided to improve their QA and consistancy. The Scenars were already at best in class level but went a further step for some calibres. The others simply played follow the leader as the leader upped the ante!
I wonder what price the NRAA could get these into our Association Stores for per 100? If they can already be sourced for $36-37.00/100 I imagine buying quantities that would share the market with HBC would still number into the hundreds of thousands per annum.
I Agree totally Ian - The Lap, Berger and HBC are soooo close in BC that they would be the ideal triple candidates for a "standard" competition. This is what we should push for in submissions to the NRAA.
I am 100% confident if this occurred that it would be fantastic for F standard. The arguement that HBC might lose some volume is the only issue and I personally think there is a great deal of support for them and if the sport continues to grow I feel HBC will see the benefit in a thriving class anyway. More shooters will mean more volume. The HBC is a great and accurate design - if they can get all the bullets coming out with Lapua consistency then they will have fantastic support.
A little competition is always a good thing - without it there would be no need for improvement!
G'Day All,
well its a very good thing that Dyer HBC's are back in production, however the moral of this story is IF these bullets are your MUST have projies, I STRONGLY recommend buying as many as you can afford NOW for the next bullet drought. AND continue to STOCKPILE them, better than money in the bank!
Sound advice Ned, a bit like when primers were in short supply. As keen shooters we should all have enough components in stock to keep us going for at least 12 months. Just buy a bit extra each time you re-stock.
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