Reloading - what do I need

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:18 am

I relaod my pistols with my Dillon 650 but rifle is a whole other beast.... So what do I need and what do you recommend?

1. Press
2. Match dies (308) (bushings?)
3. Powder thrower
4. Powder Funnel and Trickler
5. Shell holders for press
5. Hand Primer tool

I have tumblers, callipers and scales - what else do I need?

Cheers

David

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:27 am

I'm one of a growing band of heretics who prep my .308 cases with the Lee collet die. I've been doing it for maybe 10 years now with some middling good results in F Standard & Match Rifle. I can send you a copy of John Valentine's notes on how to get the best results fron this die.

On the other hand, I am prepared to spend money on a good micrometer adjustable seating die - I have both Redding & Forster, the latter having slightly looser tolerances & is less likely to gall when not attended to regularly. I also keep a body only sizing die for those rare occasions when I need to bring the case back under chamber dimension.

I've found it worthwhile to spend money on the hand priming tool. IMHO the industry standard ones have too many plastic components to be precision devices. Sinclair and K & M are my choice, the latter being available from BRT ( http://www.benchrest.com.au/reloading.htm#km-tools ). Consistent seating with the primer kissing the bottom of the pocket is a prerequisite of the best accuracy.

If you're wanting to win & continue winning, a powder thrower won't cut the mustard, eventually. Most can't hold one into +- .2 grain with free running powder, much less AR2208. Use one to toss a start load into the pan of your scales by all means, but get yourself reliable balance scales or better & learn to tune them for best accuracy.

F Standard uses a target three times plus more difficult to clean than the Target Rifle shooters use. Don't let them muddy the waters with "It's good enough for me" stuff.

John

Post by **AlanF** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:44 am

You'll also need tools for preparing and trimming cases e.g. inside neck brush, primer pocket reamer. If you find full length case resizing is required, than a case length trimmer may be required. The inexpensive Lee trimmer is very simple but does an excellent job.

Alan

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:11 am

I figured I'd be throwing powder into the scales pan then trickling to get it to the actual weight I want (to the limits of the scales ability).

Any links to 'tuning' a balance scale?

Cheers

David

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:29 am

Try these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... TElTMWgc3Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... nVOoGd1bDU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... OKJxe0FUTk

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?754 ... ght=tuning

I must admit I can't recall what was in the three YouTube links. It's been a while since I looked at them. You probably will have to log into the site to read the last link, but I recall there is a guest login.

John

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:12 am

It's an interesting thing that I hadn't thought of. Both electronic and balance scales (that I have) are rated to +/- 0.1 gn BUT the balance scales are capable of showing smaller variations - just not giving a value to them - thus they are more accurate for comparitive use.

So, if I use the balance scales for reloading I get repeatability of weight (from one setup of scales to the next) of +/- 0.1 gn but can get a load 'session' to within a much smaller margin for error by looking at the needle diflection rather than the weight on the beam. Would this be a correct analysis?

Cheers

David

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:43 am

Possibly. I use electronic scales & force them to their best possible performance. In any case, I make up a "standard" check weight for any load I use regularly. For the .308 I made them out of 50 grain soft point projectiles with the point trimmed & if needed bored out until they were the mass I needed. That way I can determine what registration on the scales equates to my load at any time.

As far as electronic scales go, I wrote the following for a friend when he purchased similar scales to what I use:

Loading with electronic scales.

Never trust any scales, electronic or balance. Conditions will change their performance. Therefore, make a test weight for every load you use regularly & mark it so you know which is which. I use old .222 projectiles & trim the soft points with a break blade knife until I have the right weight.

I weigh using the milligram scale option, because 1 milligram is pretty close to 1 kernel of N550, meaning I can load to that precision, all else being equal. I can make you more conversion tables if you need them.

Rules:

Only remove the pan from the scales to dump the load. If you take it off during the loading process, you’ll have to start again because you will likely lose some precision. Scales use what’s called a floating tare facility, which allows them to adjust their tare weight as conditions change, but you don’t want that flexibility to be part of your loading.

Always either measure up to a weight (as you’d normally do), or load down from more than you want – don’t mix. If you drop too much on, take it back under before working to your load.

Force the scales to evaluate every addition you make (even one kernel of N550) by “leaning on” the pan after you add powder. Scales have a bit of “fuzziness” in their precision, which can cause them to translate a small change as a tare correction. Gently touching the pan with something like a flexible spill of paper will cause the mechanism to positively evaluate every addition.

Give the scales time to settle. On occasion, just one extra kernel can set the load virtually half way between a couple of graduations. Eventually, it will make up its mind & settle on the “correct” value.

Keep away from drafts. These are fine scales & can be influenced by zephyrs, but not as much as some, I’ve noticed.
Procedure:

1. Make a powder shovel. I tear a rose leaf shaped piece of paper out of one of those newsagent cheap paper bags & crease it along the centreline right through the point. That stiffens it up ever so slightly & lets me pick up one kernel, 5, a dozen or whatever to toss in the pan – and scoop out some if I overload it. The paper tears with a fuzzy edge that helps picking up powder.

2. Set up powder thrower to toss just under desired load.

3. Set up scales & check with standard weight & test weight. Add pan and tare scales.

4. Check that scale is reading correctly using your test weight.

5. Throw a charge into a separate container (I use a balance pan from my beam scale) & pour it into the scale pan, making sure that you don’t bump the pan or scales.

6. Lean on the pan with your paper roseleaf, wait & read.

7. Add powder with roseleaf, lean & read until correct reading occurs.

8. Remember to check that the scale has returned to tare zero reading before dumping next charge from measure.

Precautions, hints:

If ever a load acts abnormally, eg doesn’t increase when you add powder, dump it, retare the scales & test with your test weight.

Be careful not to dump powder onto scale balance top. I’ve done it - it’s easy for a kernel to slip past the pan.

Occasionally dump an earlier charge back onto the scales (via your separate container of course). As much as anything, this will reassure you that the scales are accurate & repeatable (or at least mine did).

The negative reading that you see when you take a full pan off the scales can change during the course of a loading session. If you become uncomfortable, tare the scales without a pan, add the pan & tare them again.

Don’t bother to use a trickler. It is a nuisance with powders like N550 which can clump & fall in bunches & besides, when you get practiced with the roseleaf, you’ll be dumping a counted number of kernels on the pan in no time.

Precision with N550 is near enough to 1 milligram most of the time. Precision of AR 2206 is closer to 2 & 2208 would be not much different. Precision is a function of kernel size & weight.

Post by **AlanF** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:19 am

DJ,

I use a cheap (Lee) thrower (set to a couple of grains low) into a balance beam (Redding) pan, trickle up to weight then if I'm tired, or its a very big event, will check it on an electronic scale to guard against gross error e.g. from forgetting to trickle :oops:

! Trickling into an electronic pan doesn't work with mine because of the clever-dick averaging and zeroing electronics that John refers to. But trickling into a balance scale pan works okay - its easy to estimate how many kernels to take back out if it goes over.

Alan