Commonwealth Games

Post by **AlanF** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:41 am

James Corbett and Geoff Grenfell have worked their way to the lead in both individual and pairs with just the 1000yds to go today. Great effort - just hang on in there fellas.

http://www.ozfclass.com/results/cwg/PairsAfter900.pdf

http://www.ozfclass.com/results/cwg/IndividualAfter900.pdf

RDavies · Post by **RDavies** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:26 am

Good to see. Good luck in the 1000yd shoot fellas.

Seddo · Post by **Seddo** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:04 pm

keep it up.

actionclear · Post by **actionclear** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:03 pm

Individual Results are in:

INDIVIDUAL - after 1000x

1. Patel ENG 396.42 (Games Record)
2. Corbett AUS 395.40
3. Calvert NIR 393.35
...
4. Collings NZL 392.30
5. Horwood JSY 391.32
6. Grenfell AUS 391.32
7. McLeod SCO 391.32
8. Morris WAL 390.34
9. McQuillian NIR 390.33
10. Oxford WAL 390.32

Well done to all!

actionclear · Post by **actionclear** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:23 pm

Team Scores are not making sense.

actionclear · Post by **actionclear** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:33 pm

It's saying AU came 14th in the team.

ger · Post by **ger** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:21 pm

http://www.watoday.com.au/breaking-news ... 16k98.html

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=10680447

These links have been sent to me and may shed some light on what has happened in India.

I gather that there is considerable unhappiness...

Geoff.

Razer · Post by **Razer** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:02 pm

One can only commiserate with James and Geoff

, it's a repeat of what happened when they were shooting over there earlier this year. That is when Geoff was given a miss at the 900. I believe the targets are "Aschera?". Would not be a good promotion for them with the failure rate of their targets greater than when trialled them before

Congratulations to both shooters for putting up with the conditions,a gold medal should be awarded for tenacity and perseverance.
Ray.

Post by **AlanF** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:00 pm

Commiserations to all who were disadvantaged by this rediculous situation. I think this emphasises the level of expertise and responsibility required to run electronic targets at their current stage of their development. I believe Bisley managed okay, and WA had a few hiccups but nothing major and widespread as appears to have been the case in India. Personally I think the technology should be allowed to mature at Saturday shoots and minor events before it is unleashed at the top level, After all it is mostly just a labour-saving measure, and events such as the CWG should have the resources to do it manually, and do it well.

Alan

Peter Hulett · Post by **Peter Hulett** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:59 pm

Electronic targets used in India were NOT Aschera, they were Suiss Ascor. Lets get that right for a start.

Alan, I am not sure how much more development needs to be done on electronic targets. I would have thought that 30 years of world championships and Olympic games without a real hiccup should have been enough.

What happened in Delhi, as far as I can gather, is that Suiss Ascor built the targets to a price, which meant that they skimped, and they also didn't send technicians to test the system until too late. It was the brand, not the concept that failed.

Coupled with that, the range officers and jury members present in India had accepted that the targets were not reliable and were allowing shooters to reshoot ranges that were suspect. In fact, I understand that the Aussies were given a reshoot at 1000yds in the pairs and achieved results good enough to get the gold but the reshoot was overruled from further above.
There will be more coming out once people leave India. Keep an eye on Jim Thompson's blog.

Razer · Post by **Razer** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:50 pm

Thanks for correction Peter,my mistake. The Suiss Ascor targets were used [from memory] last March and the failure rate was high then, and once temps rose they were even more unreliable, so much so, shooting was done early in the morning to help alleviate the problem. They have had more than enough time to work on the problem. For such an important event, the failure to rectify known problems is inexcusable. Manual marking was not an option as the range is on an area of flat land,no pits, one shooting mound, with targets being moved down the range to get the required distances. This particular "E" target is different to the Kongs,etc. in that it only has sensors along the bottom of frame, not at corners like others. I can see no problem with using "E" targets with proven technology, the targets used in the C'Games did not meet a "proven" standard for the conditions. Our two shooters may wish to comment on their return as to the problems encountered, as we, here in Oz, would also encounter temps at the butts of 45+*.
This company has been making "E" targets for 50 years but the conditions at Delhi appear to be out of their "comfort zone".
Ray.

Post by **AlanF** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:03 pm

Peter,

I think you would agree that the risk of a debacle like this is greater with electronic targets? As you say, it appears that processes around the technology were the main cause of the problems however. After this, the question needs to be asked, should the CWG be regarded as the pinnacle of achievement in full bore shooting? I doubt you would get this sort of thing happening at a World Championship.

Alan

actionclear · Post by **actionclear** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:23 pm

I feel so sad for the guys. I know what it's like to be in the position to win a Queens badge, only to have it ripped away by a malfunctioning E target, and having a protest fall on deaf ears.

Mine may not have been a gold medal, but it is still heartbreaking. You wonder why you even bother, and question why you are even in the sport.

James and Geoff, we are still very proud of you both.

Post by **AlanF** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:34 pm

Linda,

The lucky benefactors from James and Geoff's misfortune were the two Kiwis who shot at Swanbourne with us. They're good blokes actually, and given New Zealand's modest haul of gold medals, they'll be national heroes!

Alan

Peter Hulett · Post by **Peter Hulett** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:35 pm

Alan,
If you use crook electronic targets then you will get systemic failures as was seen in Delhi. The problem with manual target marking is that one target may fail ie. the marker loses the plot, and it may be that this is not picked up. As one of the butts officers at the 2006 games I can assure you that this was our greatest nightmare. With a crew of inexperienced, unpaid volunteers marking the targets the potential for disaster was real and apparent.

We trained them well and they stuck at it for the 14 days of the games and were the best group of markers I have ever worked with. We survived 2006 but each CWG, Worldchamps or even your local prize meeting is dependent on the accuracy of the markers. This is usually out of sight, out of mind to the shooters.