I don’t know if any body has read the NRAA we site for the up and coming( so called world Championships) The shooting match thing for Australian F/Class is a joke.
If anybody thinks they were going to be shooting F/TR at this event can forget it, according to the NRAA web site and entry forms all F/Class shooting will be run under SSR’s and the only shooters allowed to shoot under ICFRA rules are the target rifle shooter. So any body out there putting an ICFRA approved F/TR rifle together to shoot this championships can forget it because you have been miss lead or miss informed by the NRAA. The statement under this paragraph was taken from the NRAA web site under F/Class information and was sign of by John Fitzgerald
F Class Discipline in both F Class Standard and F Class Open shot under Standard Shooting Rules for Australian Rifle Club’s (SSR’s) will be conducted during these ICFRA World Championships as part of the individual NRAA Presidents and Queen's Prize Events ONLY. There is NO F Class Competition during any other events.
So the people out there that thought they were going to be shooting against competitors from the U.S.A or any other country can forget it, because it would mean that they would have to shoot a rifle that conforms to the SSR’s not ICFRA. And I can’t see that happening. So that brings be to the next point, So the NRAA has made all the Australian rifle clubs change targets and marking systems for a one off shoot here in a Australia. That does not even include Australian F/Class shooters or even lets them shoot under the ICFRA rules, So for people out there that thought they were going to set the world on fire with F/TR, think again the NRAA has never said that they will support F/TR shoot under ICFRA rules in Australia.
So for all the discussions held on this web site about F/TR and ICFRA rules you have all been wasting your time, and as I said in the first post on this matter ICFRA RULES WHAT A JOKE.
Ned
World ICFRA Chapionship F/Class
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AlanF
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That's pretty old news Ned. The Long Range World Championships have always been promoted as a TR event. F-Class is more or less a "supporting" event. And running it using the SSRs rather than ICFRA is going to ensure bigger fields for F-Class, because many will stick around after the National Queens.
The F-Class World Championships are held every 4 years - that is the big one for us. We had an F-Open team in Canada in 2001, but not South Africa 2005, or UK 2009. Next is USA in 2013. If we manage to get teams to that, then we stand a chance of hosting a World Championship here one day.
BTW, if the NRAA is as bad as you say, then you're partly to blame, as all of us are.
Alan
The F-Class World Championships are held every 4 years - that is the big one for us. We had an F-Open team in Canada in 2001, but not South Africa 2005, or UK 2009. Next is USA in 2013. If we manage to get teams to that, then we stand a chance of hosting a World Championship here one day.
BTW, if the NRAA is as bad as you say, then you're partly to blame, as all of us are.
Alan
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Ned
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Alan.
So what you’re saying is that if F/Class did not show up the NRAA would probably run at a loss, if it was not for the support of F/Class shooters in Australia every Queens would run at a loss, but we still get know equality when it comes to the prize money. What’s to hang around for, the long distance F/Class Match rifle shoot? We already shoot long distance here it called Match Rifle. It has nothing to do with ICFRA which is what every one on this web site has been bitchin about. And who cares about the World championship in 2012.I have been trying to get things here in Australia fixed for F/Class Std shooter who shoot every weekend not once every four years in some obscurer F/TR shooting that know one was interested in till we adopted the ICFRA targets. And as for the NRAA I have been writing and talking to my state association in regards to F/Class rules for years with no out come or even a response in writing.
Ned
So what you’re saying is that if F/Class did not show up the NRAA would probably run at a loss, if it was not for the support of F/Class shooters in Australia every Queens would run at a loss, but we still get know equality when it comes to the prize money. What’s to hang around for, the long distance F/Class Match rifle shoot? We already shoot long distance here it called Match Rifle. It has nothing to do with ICFRA which is what every one on this web site has been bitchin about. And who cares about the World championship in 2012.I have been trying to get things here in Australia fixed for F/Class Std shooter who shoot every weekend not once every four years in some obscurer F/TR shooting that know one was interested in till we adopted the ICFRA targets. And as for the NRAA I have been writing and talking to my state association in regards to F/Class rules for years with no out come or even a response in writing.
Ned
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johnk
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Ned,
What we're trying to say -what has always been said - is that ICFRA's long range championship is a TR only event. ICFRA presides over a second separate event every two years apart from the TR one for F Class. International TR shooters attend the Palma event & F class shooters roll up their event. Seems simple to me.
So tell us, Ned, whay does NRAA attract your ire because they happen to be the host for one of these events?
John
What we're trying to say -what has always been said - is that ICFRA's long range championship is a TR only event. ICFRA presides over a second separate event every two years apart from the TR one for F Class. International TR shooters attend the Palma event & F class shooters roll up their event. Seems simple to me.
So tell us, Ned, whay does NRAA attract your ire because they happen to be the host for one of these events?
John
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M12LRPV
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For someone so critical of the NRAA and so intent on fixing F-Class you clearly have no understanding of the structure of the NRAA and IFCRA's events as pointed out by Alan and John.
How can you promote the IFCRA if you don't understand it?
I expect you will find that F-Class partakes in events with T/R not for money but for inclusion. We're all in this together, we want to shoot together. Well most of us do...
How can you promote the IFCRA if you don't understand it?
I expect you will find that F-Class partakes in events with T/R not for money but for inclusion. We're all in this together, we want to shoot together. Well most of us do...
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actionclear
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Well, I am the one that is responsible for that notice going up on the NRAA website. It has been there awhile.
Mind you at no point did I ask for F/TR to be included in the WLRC, as this is a International Palma Match. (TR Only)
Our F Class World Championships will be held at Raton in 2013.
I did however ask the NRAA if they would run F/TR in the lead up events at the Nationals. The Presidents and Queens. As I had international shooters keen on flying in to compete. Apparently 15 South African F/TR Shooters were not enough to change anyone’s mind. Which is a real shame.
I do try to promote our country as a shooting destination, to our international shooters. There is only so much I can do, if our national body is not interested in accepting and growing the internationally recognised F Classes.
Before anyone jumps in, and says why invite them if we don't shoot F/TR. Well, I have actually invited the South African F Open shooters to the Nationals. The F/TR guys found out, and asked if they could come along as well. I asked the NRAA, they refused.
Door of opportunity opened, and slammed closed again.
Linda
.308 Scoped Rifle
Western Australia.
.308 Scoped Rifle
Western Australia.
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Ned
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Every One
I have never said that F/Class std or F/Class open is a Joke, I have said that the NRAA is a joke, they support only target rifle with every projectile they want, and F/Class std get one descant projectile, If the NRAA was really interested in F/Class, why would it not promote F/Class std international shoot here in Australia and run under our SSR’s, I am sure you would get a lot more Australian shooters showing up for that instead of five F/Open shooters. What is there to under stand about ICFRA in Australia, it is never going to get any support from the NRAA because they do not even support F/Class std, ICFRA is a joke, if we were going to support ICFRA the NRAA would tell use that this is the shooting discipline for F/Class in Australia and that would be that. But we now have the NRAA telling us we have three types F/Class of shooting in Australia. We can not support all of them, we have enough trouble getting two types of F/Class shooters to prize meeting and queens let a lone bringing in another discipline. Why don’t you get behind the F/Class std and Open that we shoot here in Australia with our rules, and if people from other countries want to shoot here they shoot under our SSRs rules.
Ned
I have never said that F/Class std or F/Class open is a Joke, I have said that the NRAA is a joke, they support only target rifle with every projectile they want, and F/Class std get one descant projectile, If the NRAA was really interested in F/Class, why would it not promote F/Class std international shoot here in Australia and run under our SSR’s, I am sure you would get a lot more Australian shooters showing up for that instead of five F/Open shooters. What is there to under stand about ICFRA in Australia, it is never going to get any support from the NRAA because they do not even support F/Class std, ICFRA is a joke, if we were going to support ICFRA the NRAA would tell use that this is the shooting discipline for F/Class in Australia and that would be that. But we now have the NRAA telling us we have three types F/Class of shooting in Australia. We can not support all of them, we have enough trouble getting two types of F/Class shooters to prize meeting and queens let a lone bringing in another discipline. Why don’t you get behind the F/Class std and Open that we shoot here in Australia with our rules, and if people from other countries want to shoot here they shoot under our SSRs rules.
Ned
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actionclear
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Well the problem with that is, international shooters are not going to come here, change their gear, for one shoot. They will instead head to a country that offers F/TR. Australia misses out on international competition.
Australia is unable to offer an international team, because we do not support the F/TR discipline. Why would we want to limit all members to Australia only competition, when the rest of the ICFRA world moves around us? We will end up well behind the rest of the world, if we don't pick up F/TR very soon, and will end up in a position that we cannot come back from.
International teams are getting bigger, as their numbers grow within their sport.
The world is not going to change to F Std, when F/TR is working so well for them, and we haven't even attempted to offer F/TR in AU. First you have to prove that F Standard works better than F/TR, by offering F/TR as a discipline .Maybe then, you will have something to barter the ICFRA council with.
Until then, the rest of the world awaits our first F/TR team.
The matter of numbers at PM's really is no bother. Those shooting F/TR will be willing to shoot without badges or medallions, while we see if the discipline gains numbers. There will be no added cost to the club during the start up period.
I will say over the next 3-5 years, we will be able to see if F/TR is able to hold its own.
You are here demanding more options on ammo. Well that is what F/TR offers. So for you the option would be, shoot Standard under restricted ammo and powder, or F/TR with unrestricted ammo and powder.
Australia is unable to offer an international team, because we do not support the F/TR discipline. Why would we want to limit all members to Australia only competition, when the rest of the ICFRA world moves around us? We will end up well behind the rest of the world, if we don't pick up F/TR very soon, and will end up in a position that we cannot come back from.
International teams are getting bigger, as their numbers grow within their sport.
The world is not going to change to F Std, when F/TR is working so well for them, and we haven't even attempted to offer F/TR in AU. First you have to prove that F Standard works better than F/TR, by offering F/TR as a discipline .Maybe then, you will have something to barter the ICFRA council with.
Until then, the rest of the world awaits our first F/TR team.
The matter of numbers at PM's really is no bother. Those shooting F/TR will be willing to shoot without badges or medallions, while we see if the discipline gains numbers. There will be no added cost to the club during the start up period.
I will say over the next 3-5 years, we will be able to see if F/TR is able to hold its own.
You are here demanding more options on ammo. Well that is what F/TR offers. So for you the option would be, shoot Standard under restricted ammo and powder, or F/TR with unrestricted ammo and powder.
Linda
.308 Scoped Rifle
Western Australia.
.308 Scoped Rifle
Western Australia.
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M12LRPV
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Ned wrote:
I have never said that F/Class std or F/Class open is a Joke, I have said that the NRAA is a joke, they support only target rifle with every projectile they want,
Ned
You might want to rephrase that?
It reads like you think they have open projectile choice which would be a pretty stupid thing for someone to say.
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johnk
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Ned,
Where the heck do you get the gross misinformation you post?
Target Rifle shooters shoot the same two calibres as F standard shooters do.
F Standard shooters are permitted to use precisely the same projectiles as Target Rifle shooters are allowed to.
You might find this information in a NRAA publication called the Standard Shooting Rules, the latest update of which can be found here: http://www.nraa.com.au/pubs/SSRs.pdf Updates are usually listed on the NRAA website & most State associations.
The 2011 NRAA Queens has provision for both SSR-defined F class divisions & the Target Rifle divisions. The entry form can be found here: https://www.nraa.com.au/entryform?assn=natl&year=2011
The ICFRA Long Range championship, run after the NRAA Queens is, as mentioned previously an TR only event.
It probably is overkill that Australia is hosting this event so soon after they last hosted it (at Anzac Range, in 1988 as a bicentenniel event). If we looked for a similar reason to do it this year at Belmont, maybe the fact that 2011 is the 150th anniversary of the foundation of the Queensland Rifle Association is a satisfactory justification.
John
Where the heck do you get the gross misinformation you post?
Target Rifle shooters shoot the same two calibres as F standard shooters do.
F Standard shooters are permitted to use precisely the same projectiles as Target Rifle shooters are allowed to.
You might find this information in a NRAA publication called the Standard Shooting Rules, the latest update of which can be found here: http://www.nraa.com.au/pubs/SSRs.pdf Updates are usually listed on the NRAA website & most State associations.
The 2011 NRAA Queens has provision for both SSR-defined F class divisions & the Target Rifle divisions. The entry form can be found here: https://www.nraa.com.au/entryform?assn=natl&year=2011
The ICFRA Long Range championship, run after the NRAA Queens is, as mentioned previously an TR only event.
It probably is overkill that Australia is hosting this event so soon after they last hosted it (at Anzac Range, in 1988 as a bicentenniel event). If we looked for a similar reason to do it this year at Belmont, maybe the fact that 2011 is the 150th anniversary of the foundation of the Queensland Rifle Association is a satisfactory justification.
John
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John E
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actionclear wrote:Well the problem with that is, international shooters are not going to come here, change their gear, for one shoot. They will instead head to a country that offers F/TR. Australia misses out on international competition.
Australia is unable to offer an international team, because we do not support the F/TR discipline. Why would we want to limit all members to Australia only competition, when the rest of the ICFRA world moves around us? We will end up well behind the rest of the world, if we don't pick up F/TR very soon, and will end up in a position that we cannot come back from.
International teams are getting bigger, as their numbers grow within their sport.
The world is not going to change to F Std, when F/TR is working so well for them, and we haven't even attempted to offer F/TR in AU. First you have to prove that F Standard works better than F/TR, by offering F/TR as a discipline .Maybe then, you will have something to barter the ICFRA council with.
Until then, the rest of the world awaits our first F/TR team.
The matter of numbers at PM's really is no bother. Those shooting F/TR will be willing to shoot without badges or medallions, while we see if the discipline gains numbers. There will be no added cost to the club during the start up period.
I will say over the next 3-5 years, we will be able to see if F/TR is able to hold its own.
You are here demanding more options on ammo. Well that is what F/TR offers. So for you the option would be, shoot Standard under restricted ammo and powder, or F/TR with unrestricted ammo and powder.
Our biggest issue with International competition is distance, we're not close to anyone except the Kiwi's, the northern hemisphere countries are an awful lot closer to each other, and most Australian shooters are happy to shoot the odd local OPM and MAYBE their States Queens but not much more, getting enough keen competitive (wealthy) shooters to travel overseas is hard work, since Canada there hasn't been a FC team to travel outside Australia.
Matt P
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AlanF
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Matt,
I think one of your words "keen" is the most important. Look at Match Rifle - their numbers would be a fraction of F-Class, yet they send teams to the UK regularly, and the Poms reciprocate.
I'm not saying that F-Class shooters should be condemned for not wanting to do it - its their choice. Part of it could be they just don't know what they're missing.
Alan
I think one of your words "keen" is the most important. Look at Match Rifle - their numbers would be a fraction of F-Class, yet they send teams to the UK regularly, and the Poms reciprocate.
I'm not saying that F-Class shooters should be condemned for not wanting to do it - its their choice. Part of it could be they just don't know what they're missing.
Alan
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actionclear
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AlanF wrote: Part of it could be they just don't know what they're missing.
Alan
Where is the clapping hands smiley.
There is also South Africa as a competiton location ready to be sourced.
For Australians, with our current dollar, this is actually an attractive choice. Our dollar is 7 times stronger than theirs.
Linda
.308 Scoped Rifle
Western Australia.
.308 Scoped Rifle
Western Australia.
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