NSW Queens

[ecomeat]

tony,
are you coming on down to sara queens at lower light?
keep safe,
bruce.

Bruce, I can't guarantee to get there but I will try. My interest is as much to do with sighting this phenomenal SA F Class pheromone reaction that I have read so much about..........ie women drawn in their droves to the shooting menfolk at Lower Light....... as it is to the actual shooting contest itself ? I would also hope to view this "man-kini" that I understand you wear to compete, sometimes.
Plus of course to see for myself this Lower Light range that South Australians seem to feel will absolutely break the hearts of interstate visitors !
Is there Motel/Hotel type accommodation on the range or nearby ?
How far/long is it from Adelaide airport ?
How many points start will you give Queenslanders ?
Tony

[ecomeat]

All F Class shooters are together in one block, so that we don't tarnish the TR shooters or teach them any bad habits.

Sounds like your saying that the F-Open shooters were treated like second class citizens. Is this right?

I think they might have had the fun lovers or the lovers of the shoot all squaded together. To much merriment can be all to much for some to bare.

Because I am a complete newbie at this, and neither know nor care about the politics and/or the "history" I am personally having a ball, and being with 5 or 6 electronic targets fully grouped solely with F Class shooters (8 or 9 to each target) then for me it's a bit like heaven....... 50 or 60 like-minded others around me who all choose to shoot F Class and are interested in precision long range shooting with a scope.
I am simply not interested in TR shooting myself , in any manner....other than supporting my fellow travelers from Qld !! I have never fired a shot out of a target rifle, but that's just me .
I certainly CAN understand how for many F Classers with many years worth of mates , it's nice to get squaded with a diversity of shooters.
But Alan is right, and as proud as I am of my Third place at the end of the day, it's definitely a bit of a travesty when "luck" plays too big a part in the days results .....and basically that did happen today. Alan's idea of having the Open shooters down at the same time, and the Std A and Std B shooters similarly competing at the same time is something that could be easily accomplished here at Malabar with so many electronic targets and if the NSWRA chose to do it (ie split us up and spread us out so there was an Open shooter, plus an A and B grade F Std shooter on every target and at "basically" the same time, it could be easily managed.
Or, maybe that's "just shooting for you" John Peters, Rod Davies and myself all want to keep our goodies from today and know that tomorrow is a whole new day where we are all at the mercy of the wind !!
Tony

[johnk]

Are blow off shots really practical in our form of shooting?

In Bisley, the blow offs occur before each pair or threesome starts, with all targets down. It would be a serious challenge to our markers if random shots were lobbed at areas of the butt stop at irregular intervals, even worse if the incompetent connected with their target or another shooter's.

It comes down to what skill sets are necessary to succeed in the sport at various locations. We don't offer blow off shots (& only allow zeroing shots for those days after the first at Belmont, if you take into account when the zero range is legally open & when the shoot starts), so is not one of the necessary skills that of cleaning the rifle sufficiently to permit it to shoot the next match (or next day's matches) accurately and not to the extent that it is incapable of holding a group for 5 or more shots go down the barrel?

Unless my first shot(s) from a cleaned barrel is in the group or repeatably a consistent distance from the group, then I modify my cleaning practice until that occurs.

[bruce moulds]

tony,
thank god you might get here.
it will relieve some of the pheromone pressure from the regulars.
alan can vouch for this, as he has suffered the slings and arrows of female advancement at lower light.
these women are sado getoff types, who are turned on by male suffering, and this happens nowhere more to males than at lower light range (the house of pain) in the wind.
alan and marty have camped at motels around and could give good advice.
sara could recommend some as well.
there are Nissan huts at the range you could book, and there is catering for all meals.
it would be great to meet you.
keep safe,
bruce.

[johnk]

Tony,

Let's say that shooters of an equivalent category are squadded at the same time? Who decides who gets to shoot the less onerous right hand side of Bendigo at 1000 yards or left of Belmont or who arbitrarily ends up on the benign edge of any range at any distance for that matter?

It seems to me that a process where shooters are initially assigned to targets, ballot among themselves for shooting order, then are moved over the range & up the board by an algorithm that offers a chance for any shooter to jag a good or bad patch isn't particularly unfair per se. Of course, if one happens to catch the crap at a more challenging distance, then of course their their view would be somewhat coloured.

I think of the States, where shooters of any discipline are squadded according to their (perpetual) standard & the creme de la creme, the High Masters are inevitably given the favoured squad of the day. That doesn't sit well with me, nor would the equivalent with our egalitarian mix. Which grade or division would shoot first up each day when the wind's just flicking & which would have to wait it out until conditions develop? Sounds like the making of a conspiracy to me.

John

[AlanF]

John,

A practical way of allowing blow-offs is to do what was done in the US Nationals. For the first range of the day only, each shooter is allowed unlimited non-convertible sighters. They are only limited by the fact that no additional time allowance is given. When the shooter is ready to start the business shots, he tells scorer "going for record". As you will know, every barrel has its own personality, and some are almost impossible to get to shoot well clean. Allowing blow-offs will improve a lot of scores - and this sport should be more about shooting ability than who has a barrel that shoots well clean (or who has a place to sneak off to and do blow-off shots ).

Alan

[bruce moulds]

john,
you mention specific problems at different ranges.
at lower light they have attempted to create fairness for at least one problem.
there is a compound in place to lock up ladies of forward nature while shooting is in progress so that those with the Adonis affliction have a chance against those who don't.
of course there are those women who come disguised as men, even to the point of sometimes wearing false beards, in order to avoid this.
danny s found the easiest solution to the problem. he moved to Victoria, and might never come to a queens at lower light again.
keep safe,
bruce.

[ecomeat]

John,
I clearly don't have the answers to any of the questions that you posed, but unless someone, somewhere actually tries it, we will never know, will we ?
The thing is that they do have enough ETs here at Malabar that they could try it.
A simple, genuine "draw" could/would be the fair and easy way to sort out starting order and range positioning. And going "up 2 and over 2", over 8 or 9 ranges over 3 days certainly does give a mathematically fair playing field anyway.
Combine all the "fairness factors" and useing them to develop the fairest possible competition could at least be trialled easily if a consultative committee of experienced shooters with results on the board was allowed to plan it.
Would you at least concede that putting the Top Ten down at the same time on the last range is worth trialling ?? That would be idiotically easy to do here at Malabar.
Tony

[SENDIT]

Malabar and equality to f shooters, good luck with that

[bruce moulds]

blowoff shots if allowed should not be on marked tatgets.
the reason being that those who have say 4 blowoffs already have a handle on conditions through extra sighters.
a way to circumvent this would be to allow foulers prior to 7.00 am.
keep safe,
bruce.

[AlanF]

blowoff shots if allowed should not be on marked tatgets.
the reason being that those who have say 4 blowoffs already have a handle on conditions through extra sighters.
a way to circumvent this would be to allow foulers prior to 7.00 am.
keep safe,
bruce.

Bruce,

What's the problem if everyone has the same opportunity?

Alan

[DaveMc]

Tony,

Let's say that shooters of an equivalent category are squadded at the same time? Who decides who gets to shoot the less onerous right hand side of Bendigo at 1000 yards or left of Belmont or who arbitrarily ends up on the benign edge of any range at any distance for that matter?

It seems to me that a process where shooters are initially assigned to targets, ballot among themselves for shooting order, then are moved over the range & up the board by an algorithm that offers a chance for any shooter to jag a good or bad patch isn't particularly unfair per se. Of course, if one happens to catch the crap at a more challenging distance, then of course their their view would be somewhat coloured.

I think of the States, where shooters of any discipline are squadded according to their (perpetual) standard & the creme de la creme, the High Masters are inevitably given the favoured squad of the day. That doesn't sit well with me, nor would the equivalent with our egalitarian mix. Which grade or division would shoot first up each day when the wind's just flicking & which would have to wait it out until conditions develop? Sounds like the making of a conspiracy to me.

John

Interestingly John - when squadded in order for the last day the top shooters were given the worst end of the field - we were tucked down the left side in the high mounds. basically # 1 got the first lane (Bob Mead) and then in order off to the right (Marty, Kenny Adams, myself then Herb). Even with adding 10 per range we never got outside lane 26 - Nasty area to shoot at Raton - but the best (Kenny and Marty) handled it superbly and deserved the win.

[ecomeat]

Just finished the 2nd 300 meter range.
First couple of shooters thismorning had very even conditions and a number of 60-5 to 60-7 were scored.. Wild and wooly winds saw a few very long faces .....mine among them. I was in good company with Mark Freebairn, Meichelle and Brent Knudsen and myself on 59s. Rod shot gertrude i think, to drop 3, so she was sacked for the 2nd range and I am pretty sure he only dropped one. We just kept rolling for the 2nd 300 in the same other a a handful more 60-5 to 60-7were shot.
Matt Paroz had 2 x 60-5/7 to is in great form and will rocket up the ladder with that. Spencer Dunstall won the first 300 with his 60-7 and Greg Warrian just one X behind on 60-6
Will post an updates top ten or so as ASAP.
Now we have a 2 hour break before shooting 2 x 600 meter ranges

[macguru]

I only shot FO today at Malabar, however its interesting to note that under the windy conditions, the FO scores were a fair way ahead of FS. Its what you would expect, but it has not happened much lately at least in the NSW shoots I have attended....

[johnk]

Dave,

My bad. I was thinking of their iron sighted shooters, not F class.

Were you squadded from top down from the left, or was that an arbitrary outcome?

John