Wet weather gear

[DenisA]

Can I leave it until the end of April? Maybe we;ll have the full deal by then.

Yeah, of course. Thank you for all of your personal time that you put into these things.

[johnk]

The NRAA board considered Denis' design at their recent meeting.

Considering the response from national ICFRA rule delegates who were asked to comment on the design (they were split on its legality), NRAA determined that it was inappropriate to use for all F class disciplines.

John

[DenisA]

Thanks for the update John.

I will respect the decision made though I cant help wondering what the motivation is for the nay sayers. It feels like people in decision making positions in many areas of life just keep saying NO because they can.

In this case, I thought it was a great safety and practical solution in a discipline that specifically rules that innovation is desired.

Appreciate your time and help on this John.

[johnk]

I will respect the decision made though I cant help wondering what the motivation is for the nay sayers.

I imagine that they considered it a "tent".

[DenisA]

I will respect the decision made though I cant help wondering what the motivation is for the nay sayers.

I imagine that they considered it a "tent".

F3.2.4.
Personal shooting ‘tents’ are not permitted.

It's not a 'personal' tent though. I thought the personal tent rule was to make sure that the shooter was not being protected from the weather.

[DenisA]

Jas, I thought of that after the latest knock back but have come to the conclusion that they'd still knock it back if it were on the rifle. I believe that the decision makers are saying no purely for the sake of it, they don't have the best interests of the shooters at heart and they are not considering the genuine reasons for why this type of thing should be allowed.
I'll name a couple:
1. Safety and ease of regulating it in poor conditions.
2. To protect the gear underneath it. Commonly $5000+ rifle, $3000 scope, $1500 front rest all of which can be damaged by water. We're not snipers in the jungle having to brave rugged conditions, we're sportsmen trying to play our game safely, on a shooting range that is a controlled environment and constantly trying to improve on the game.

What now, everyone will do as we have in the past and just throw a wet towel over the gun and the shooters head..... Because that's safer and still doesn't comply with the rules.

Tim, I hear you, but this hoop is a part of the front rest which there are no rules of shape or size.

There's no unfair advantage because if they allowed it then everyone who wanted to would follow suit.

Denis.

Just thought it was time to make a point, that point being that we won't get what we believe is necessary unless we prosecute it through our local & state Associations to the NRAA for them to represent to ICFRA. We've passed the point of local or national autonomy. Our FO & F/TR rules are essentially in accordance with ICFRA rules - rules which are unlikely to change more than once every four years, at the Worlds.

Rant off

John I'm not very well rehearsed in the formalities of something like that. How would I go about it? Is it a case of writing a letter and passing it on to my local QRA councillor who I think is Colin C? I suspect that a single submission would be brushed off. Would I need to attach a list of supporters names as in a petition or would individuals have to submit their own letters.

[Tim N]

Hey Dennis,
Looking at the hoop addition to your front rest(which I think is a great idea), a bush lawyer might argue you have changed the purpose of your front rest to include a "tent" support.
Hopefully I will get my next idea sorted before the nationals which will be a light weight frame attached to the pic rail extending over the scope for the clear sheet to drape over.
It will be included in the weight of the rifle, so should be OK????

[johnk]

Tim,

What part of this SSR extract don't you understand:

NOTE:- Where these rules for both F Open and F Standard do not specifically cover a particular subject that may arise then the Rules as pertaining to TR shall apply.

3.2 Aids and Accessories Permitted
3.2.1 A waterproof mat may be placed over the fore end and breech mechanism to prevent the entry of water.

[Tim N]

John,
Ok won't bother

[bsouthernau]

Tim,

What part of this SSR extract don't you understand:

NOTE:- Where these rules for both F Open and F Standard do not specifically cover a particular subject that may arise then the Rules as pertaining to TR shall apply.

3.2 Aids and Accessories Permitted
3.2.1 A waterproof mat may be placed over the fore end and breech mechanism to prevent the entry of water.

And where does it say that the rifle MAY NOT have a lightweight frame attached to the scope rail?

[AlanF]

I'm not sure that John was specifically ruling it out. If its there only to protect the scope from the weight of the allowed mat (and possibly to allow easier access to the knobs), and isn't any larger than required to do that, then I can't see any fellow competitors putting in a protest.

[RDavies]

. If its there only to protect the scope from the weight of the allowed mat (and possibly to allow easier access to the knobs), and isn't any larger than required to do that, then I can't see any fellow competitors putting in a protest.

Depends if he is winning at the time.

[jasmay]

With electronic targets becoming so heavily prevalent, will the need to this sort of gear diminish? I'd hazard a guess not many clubs are going to want there gear wet.

[johnk]

I believe that careful consideration needs to be given to (relatively) recent determinations by the NRAA concerning what provision for wet weather might be currently acceptable and the method to achieve more liberal adjudications (rule changes?) in the future.

Initial attention needs to be given to the basis of the most recent decision (Denis’s pedestal hoop) and to the SSRs themselves. In that instance, NRAA considered that SSRs for FO are largely consistent with ICFRA FO rules and that FO shooters were committed to participation at international level. Therefore their determination took into account the opinion of ICFRA national rule delegates & the SSR provisions. The former expressed varying views, but tended to the negative whilst the SSRs do not yet have separate provisions for FO & FS disciplines, defaulting to the TR limitation of a cover for fore end & action, thus the negative outcome.

Next, we need to consider that ICFRA rule changes are usually effected at the Championships & effective for the following four year(ish) period. Changes cannot be brought into effect except in the 18 months following the Championship, that is, no rule change will now occur for the next event.

Therefore, if there is a strong consensus that better protection than a one metre square piece of clear material is required, then I believe that all states should be approached by their F class shooters (F Class Associations?) to represent a form of “tent” should be permitted in F class & that view being accepted by NRAA, it should be represented to the ICFRA Council by NRAA for consideration at the 2017 championship. However, there is little time remaining to achieve this, so it is imperative that you all get the ball rolling in your state.

Bear in mind that using the argument of safety or duty of care is not necessarily a strong one, as both sets of rules place the onus on the competitor to use safe equipment & ammunition. I refer you to ICFRA rules F1.6.5, F1.7 & F1.8 particularly & SSRs rule 2.1.11. It could readily be argued that loading to a level that was safe in dry conditions only or not providing for wet weather ammunition is not compliant with the onus of the shooter to act in a safe manner.

Meantime, anything that you might consider reasonable for use in wet weather at a prize meeting should be tested by representing it through your state association to the NRAA Rules Director for an adjudication.

Check out the ICFRA rules here: http://www.icfra.com/page5.htm and the SSRs here: http://www.nraa.com.au/new-ssrs-version ... -may-2016/

[Julian D]

I am in the middle of making a wet weather cover for my scope & action.
It is based on a mirage style barrel cover , and come up & over the scope from the front. It will be velcro'd on like a mirage cover would, only on the barrel, and come up and cover the scope with wings outward which will deflect rain away from the action , at about 200mm wide above the scope , it should also give a small dry area underneath the rifle , depending on the strength of the wind. All made out of carbon fibre , so weight will not be an issue. As far as being able to see the action while it is on, a CRO while standing at my feet will be able to see if I have a bolt in the rifle & if it is open or closed. Fairly simple idea , small & compact , and will not weigh much at all.