OzFclass

bruce moulds wrote:in usa they have a 308 class, a class called "any" and a class called "any/any".
any allows any calibre, but only iron sights.
any/any allows any calibre/ any sight.
other than that gun wts, trigger wts etc are the same.
these categories might be a better idea than just 6br it that path is chosen.
any/any would offer older eyes more opportunity.

Interesting Bruce. I think optical class is still on the books but it was overwhelmingly shown that nobody wanted to shoot off their elbows using a scope. I wonder how it would have gone if, instead, telescopic sights had been approved for TR - think Graham Mincham was promoting that idea for a while.

barry,
t.r. always had a culture of if you used a scope you were cheating.
when they introduced that is was so guys with sighting problems could still keep shooting, but most would not due to the cheating phobia.
usa now allows scopes for the "across the course" discipline.
my own experiments with scopes vs irons is that a 15x scope is about equal to irons.
most militaries now run scopes for the average grunt, albeit 3x or 4x.
I might give tr a try if you could use a scope and if you could use the 6.5 creedmoor.
I would not go out and set up a t.r. (palma) rifle in part due to the cost of a decent set of sights that are only useful for that discipline.
and you have to keep water off the eagle eye, and you can use a dioptre etc etc.
t.r. guys were not too worried about tradition when it came to diopters and eagle eyes. (not knocking that.)
bruce.

you just like pocking the bear don't you bruce!
the rules have been put in place, would you still compete with a eighteen ml tunnel if you were in target rifle.
oh sorry you don't compete do you,key board warrior i think they call it.
regards
paul

paul,
was just trying to debate the subject from all angles.
not sure where you are coming from or what you are trying to imply.
I find the term keyboard warrior offensive, and hope you are not applying it to myself.
bruce.

I think it’s a terrible idea to start “discussions” to get people talking about change, much better idea to do nothing and continue on with the sports slow death !!!

budget wrote: oh sorry you don't compete do you,key board warrior i think they call it.

????????

I have shot with/against Bruce many times

Matt P wrote:I think it’s a terrible idea to start “discussions” to get people talking about change, much better idea to do nothing and continue on with the sports slow death !!!

Couldn't agree more Matt. I've just reviewed my posts in this thread and still think I made reasoned comment. Nowhere did I decry the NRAA for raising the idea which I still don't think is a good one.

We'd be better off pondering the bullet tax and name change papers.

Barry

Reflecting and questioning why and how we do things is vital for any organisation that plans to exist into the future. And in the case of Target Shooting in Australia it is as timely as it is vitally needed because Target rifle (the discipline as we now it now) is dying.

bsouthernau wrote:

Matt P wrote:I think it’s a terrible idea to start “discussions” to get people talking about change, much better idea to do nothing and continue on with the sports slow death !!!

Couldn't agree more Matt. I've just reviewed my posts in this thread and still think I made reasoned comment. Nowhere did I decry the NRAA for raising the idea which I still don't think is a good one.

We'd be better off pondering the bullet tax and name change papers.

Barry

I started shooting by getting into Target Rifle and shot the .308 for 7yrs before I decided to explore F-class and other shooting disciplines (psr, service rifle, F-O and F-TR etc..) and calibers (.223, .280AI, 6.5x55,.308). Based on my observations in my relatively short shooting career, The one thing about F-class and Target Rifle, more so than in other disciplines, is that the ability to read the conditions, perform under pressure and know your equipment Will not change with addition of a new calibre. Champions who are masters of the .308/.223 and understand in fine detail how those calibers perform and are effected by the environment on any given range will likely still be winning championships. It doesn’t matter whether you are winding 4MOA with .308 or 3.25MOA with a 6BR; knowing precisely what your wind calls are from shot to shot are what matters.

All a new calibre will do is open the door wider to new potential competition shooters who may have have preference for 6mm cartridge and it’s characteristics over the more established .308 and .223.

scott/r wrote:My concerns are, are the nraa board trying to get more arms slings by introducing a new caliber, or are they just trying to introduce a new caliber to f stanard through the back door?
One of the reasons I shoot target rifle is because of heritage of the style of shooting, and I understand there is a class of prone shooting in the states and Europe (I think ) that shoot the short ranges with 6br and it's improved cases, but not what nraa are asking to introduce.
I don't shoot standard so I don't beleive that I have the right to comment on that side of the proposal, but as far as t/r goes, I'll be voting against it if given the opportunity.
Scott

Scott, the NRAA board are simply acting on a proposal rather than ignoring it.
One of the States put the proposal forward. The board put together the 'briefing' papers and sent them to S&Ts for input/comment. Depending how your S orT works they may be passing them out to districts and clubs to put to members.
Clearly word has been passed so feel free to respond via your club/district/ S or T

I don't have anything to do with TR and so don't have any real opinions on whether or not introducing 6BR as a cartridge is a good thing or not. I had heard though that some TR shooters had put the request for allowing 6BR to NRAA, so I think it is good that they are at least listening to shooters requests and are putting it out for discussion. I think if they didn't raise the topic, then people would have complained they were being closed minded.

I do have 2 points though. Someone mentioned range officers wouldn't know the difference between the various 6MM bullets and cases. Well, for sure some may not, but then some may not know if someone is using a 308 improved, using high energy powders, or using 200gn bullets. This is why in big competitions, they have ammo checks done by someone qualified.
As for 6BR bullet BCs being higher, yes, they are, but then with a 6BR, you are really pushing pressures to get close to 2900fps, so people usually shoot them at around 2830 fps, while many 308 shooters are pushing their 155s over 3000fps.

Not that I have any valid opinions on whether 6BR should be allowed or not. I don't shoot TR, so it is nothing to do with me.

TR and F Standard are closely aligned, when the weight limit for TR increased so did F Standard. So would adopting the 6mm for TR flow on to F Standard, hopefully not.

Danny
It will be for both TR and F Std,
From NRAA website "
Purpose
Feedback is sought from the broader membership, through the S&T whether or not the NRAA should allow
the use of 6BR as an approved calibre in TR, which by default would allow the use in FSTD. Whilst the calibre
would be approved for use in Australia, it should be noted that it would not be available for use in
international competitions. "
Cheers
Phil

To be honest the other items are of much greater importance !!!
Matt P

certainly name change is worthy of consideration, when one realizes that people are staying away from nraa due to the belief that it is connected to nra usa. period.
bullet tax is just another way for the nraa to avoid the elephant in the room that they need money to promote our disciplines, and the only real way to get it is to focus on raising it in a more practical manner.
bruce.

I think including the 6BR into Fstd is not a good idea. At the present time there are still restrictions on exactly what 155 projectiles can be used. Introducing a whole new calibre makes that look ludicrous.
Fstd was also meant to be a discipline that kept the costs down. The use of $2000+ front rests is already an advantage to those that want to use a rest and can afford it. The introduction of 6br which does have an advantage over the 308 would mean to be truly competitive you would need to have both calibres at your disposal for use depending on distance and weather.

I think this would have the opposite effect of what is wanted and drive some people away from the sport. I can see people throwing there hands up in the air and just leaving because they cant be competitive without buying another gun.

Really what would be the difference between F open and the new proposed Fstd. With Fstd already allowing those with medical conditions to shoot from a bench it turns the whole thing from belly benchrest to just Benchrest.