OzFclass

Hi All
A friend of mine in the rifle club is trying to convert a Musgrave into a 556.
He has one problem with the extracter claw trying to modify it to extract the 556 shell.
He has slid the extacor claw off and tried to file it down so the claw will go over the shell.
I had a look at it and because it is spring steel ou can not bend it or move it over.
If anyone out there has made this modification we would be pleased to see how it is done as we are both stumped.
Regards Rich

Sounds like a bit of a worry...

A conversion from 308W to 223R (I suspect that is what is happening) is not as simple as just changing the barrel and making the extractor claw grip the shell rim.

With an Omark as an example, the whole bolt end and extractor claw are changed to give the proper sized bolt face, and to allow the extractor to work properly. Not so simple with a one piece bolt such as the Musgrave.

The bolt face can be sleeved to fit the 223, but the extractor claw also needs to be modified or changed for one that works with the new bolt face size.

I strongly suggest going to a reputable gunsmith and have it done there.

The conversion has been done by quite a few people who have successfully have done it.
I want to know how
Cheers Rich

I not long a go spoke to
Geoff Grenfell and i think he had an idea about musgrave conversions.

Hi Paul
I know that Keith Hills has done some also.
I know someone got one done and went back to shooting a 308 and was simple to modify it back.He was on this forum.
Cheers Rich

The conversion has been done by quite a few people who have successfully have done it.

richmac, I probably missunderstood you (happens a lot . I thought you meant to do the job yourself...or your mate to do it. Of course any gunsmith can do the conversion, it is their thing. Do you mean, "quite a few people have had it done by somebody...???"

Woody_rod wrote:

The conversion has been done by quite a few people who have successfully have done it.

richmac, I probably missunderstood you (happens a lot . I thought you meant to do the job yourself...or your mate to do it. Of course any gunsmith can do the conversion, it is their thing. Do you mean, "quite a few people have had it done by somebody...???"

Hi all,
Keith Hills done mine and works great.
PeterH

balcom wrote:

Woody_rod wrote:

The conversion has been done by quite a few people who have successfully have done it.

richmac, I probably missunderstood you (happens a lot . I thought you meant to do the job yourself...or your mate to do it. Of course any gunsmith can do the conversion, it is their thing. Do you mean, "quite a few people have had it done by somebody...???"

Hi all,
Keith Hills done mine and works great.
PeterH

Musgrave is a Mauser system, and I have my hands in the Mauser since 1944.
I have too much respect for the system to try such a not serious work.
Wonder how the ârticular bolt head recess has been modified, and how the particular feeding, with the case head sliding into the exttractor, has been ensured??
My point only...
R.G.C

Well it seems that Keith Hills is the man who has done what others say it can not be done,Keith would you like to put your opinion into this discussion ?
Rich

Well it seems that Keith Hills is the man who has done what others say it can not be done,Keith would you like to put your opinion into this discussion ?

Who is saying it can't be done? I only said that it isn't just a simple thing to do. Not sure I would put such effort into a Musgave, but that just my opinion.

v

richmac wrote:Well it seems that Keith Hills is the man who has done what others say it can not be done,Keith would you like to put your opinion into this discussion ?
Rich

As Woody said there is a slight difference between 'can be done'' and 'not recommendes to do it''

I have great respect for Mr Hills exertise, and look forward for his comments.

I have done myself such works in the past, and all of them necessitated adding metal on the contour of the bolt face recess.

Plain welding is not an issue, micro-arc welding unde controlled atmoshere or laser welding a possibility, but again , better to avoid it when working unknow steels.

South Africa is not particularily renowmed for their steel metallurgy, and Musgrace bolts have had some problems in the past. I understand there is actually some cracked bolt lugs in NZ.. The RSA metakurgy competence goes on more brilliant metals!!!!

I take the opportunity of this posting to add a message:
Some time ago, a member of this forum asked me if I was able to trace a Millenium Bolt in .223, as he wanted to convert hs .308 to .223.
It happens that a friend in england want to do the excat contrary conversion.
For the interested, please, contact me for a possible swap...
Robert Chombart

Robert Chombart wrote:v

richmac wrote:Well it seems that Keith Hills is the man who has done what others say it can not be done,Keith would you like to put your opinion into this discussion ?
Rich

As Woody said there is a slight difference between 'can be done'' and 'not recommendes to do it''

I have great respect for Mr Hills exertise, and look forward for his comments.

I have done myself such works in the past, and all of them necessitated adding metal on the contour of the bolt face recess.

Plain welding is not an issue, micro-arc welding unde controlled atmoshere or laser welding a possibility, but again , better to avoid it when working unknow steels.

South Africa is not particularily renowmed for their steel metallurgy, and Musgrace bolts have had some problems in the past. I understand there is actually some cracked bolt lugs in NZ.. The RSA metakurgy competence goes on more brilliant metals!!!!

I take the opportunity of this posting to add a message:
Some time ago, a member of this forum asked me if I was able to trace a Millenium Bolt in .223, as he wanted to convert hs .308 to .223.
It happens that a friend in england want to do the excat contrary conversion.
For the interested, please, contact me for a possible swap...
Robert Chombart

Robert
The only mod that I can see that Keith done to my Musgrave to convert it to 223 is to let the extracter claw reach the shell rim to be able to extract the shell, no welding or other metal involved, works well.
PeterH.

Robert
The only mod that I can see that Keith done to my Musgrave to convert it to 223 is to let the extracter claw reach the shell rim to be able to extract the shell, no welding or other metal involved, works well.
PeterH.

I won't speak for Robert, but I find it unlikely that your suggested modification would be what has happened, but then again, I have not seen it so will take your word for it.

If the bolt face is that of a standard 308 rim size, obviously, it will be a lot bigger than the standard 223 rim size (12.01mm for 308W and 9.60mm for the 223R).

Personally, I would stand at least 5 metres from that rifle when it is fired.....

Woody_rod wrote:

Personally, I would stand at least 5 metres from that rifle when it is fired.....

I can't see a problem. Why is this dangerous?

Cameron

It is dangerous if the back end of the case is not surrounded by the bolt head, or in case of a rimmed round, the chamber. Ideally, there is very little gap between the end of the bolt, and the end of the barrel in the action. For example, in my Paramount, there is only 0.0035" gap (three and a half thousandths of an inch) between the bolt and barrel.

A rifle may well be shot for years without a problem with the bolt face larger than that specified, but why take the risk?

Other than the above, it would be pretty poor practice for any person to undertake a conversion, and leave the bolt face out of spec as mentioned. I have never seen any rifle converted like this, and hope I never do.