OzFclass

I was wondering if anyone uses devices like the Kestrel for obtaining wind and temperature settings for use in Ballistics Software programs?

I am just starting F Class, and come from a very IT literate background and have noticed their are a large amount of utilities and devices to assist with dialling in the MOA settings on a scope.

My question is also based on how such items are viewed by seasoned shooters. Does anyone think that using the devices gives an advantage to the shooter, and if so is it unfair?

One of the main reasons I have taken up F Class is to have an escape from my IT/Computers profession and to have control over what I do, not leave it up to a computer!

But the more research I undertake, I notice computers and technology seem to go hand in hand and indeed compliment each other.

I would really be interested to hear your thoughts.

WC

You'll see a few Kestrels & the like floating around rifle ranges, but their limitation is that they are in your hand & the wind is there & thereabouts down range. Were you, for example to decide to site a number of them in appropriate locations & do a realtime download of the data, sour old pricks like me would cry unfair advantage & protest against their use with a fair liklihood of succeeding.

Seriously, they aren't designed to be located where they are useful, unlike range flags & mirage.

For quite a few years when I started to shoot match rifle, I carted a weather station round with me & assiduously recorded temperature, humidity & baromentric pressure, based on the premise that I would derive advantage at long ranges from suitably manipulating that information. It filled a lot of pages, but eventually when I'd crunched all the crud half a dozen ways I concluded that I could reasonably predict a range of probable weather variables before each shoot with the help of the BOM site, plot them on my laptop & have a strategy to suit what eventuated day to day. The only lift I got from that machine was when I programmed its alarm accidentally & it annoyed the buggery out of me going off unexpectedly when the switch bumped on.

Most of the time, I figure that the QRA weather rock gives me all the information I can use.

Hi Johnk,

Thanks for the reply..and I actually agree with you. Even though I am a big tech fan, I want to learn how to do it WITHOUT the use of gadgets.

I have been attending the club at Belmont on a Saturday and I am blown away by the older fellas that appear to talk in a different language when they relate to wind changes and sighting etc..

Now I am 38 so dont class myself as that young, but compared to the members in my club I am still in nappies

The guys have sooo much knowledge and experiance I hope they never allow the use of wind meters, as I see their knowledge disapearing as it has with map reading thanks to TOMTOM.

Saying that though, I do see benefit in Ballistic software applications so interested to hear your thoughts on them.

WC

I use one (Kestrel) mostly for wind speed only and then feed the wind speed into my Apple iPod Touch 2 ballistic program and whammo, instant moa for prevailing wind.

A very useful tool for when starting out and it gets you approx the right amount of wind to wind on before you fire your first sighter. Old hands can do the same thing without any gadgets at all, just experience and observation.

I'd recommend the Kestrel line of products and also the iPod Touch (or iPhone) and its great ballistics programs which can be downloaded for under $20.00.

Ian

Hi Ian,

I bought JBM for my iPhone...but havent got a clue how it works

I have recently purchased the Nightforce Ballistics program which I am hoping is simpler than JBM(Not received it yet).

As I am new to the sport...I seem to be devouring every bit of knowledge I can get my hands on, so I havent spent enough time with the JBM program.

WC

johnk wrote:<snip>
Most of the time, I figure that the QRA weather rock gives me all the information I can use.

Yes, this system works for me too, JC

Triplejim wrote:

johnk wrote:<snip>
Most of the time, I figure that the QRA weather rock gives me all the information I can use.

Yes, this system works for me too, JC

Yep, way to go!!

Cameron

G'day All,
The very best weather indicator is where the last shot fired impacted on the target.................. but is has a very short use by date!

Cheaper than a Kestrel too!

Cheerio Geoff

The best thing to do if your starting out is to learn to discriminate between BS and good advice based on facts.

Why not start at the best shooting website in the world for good info and news. www.6mmbr.com (join their forum)

It not just on 6mm calibres it covers all the rifles you are ever likely to interested in for competition or hunting.

Back on topic, I use and recommend a Kestrel 2500, not the top of the line model but gives temp, air pressure and of course wind speed. The ballistic program I got was Bulletflight L2 ($12) for the iPod Touch/iPhone its easy to use. look here: http://www.knightarmco.com/bulletflight/index.htm

Article on these sorts of meters here: http://demigodllc.com/articles/windmete ... -shooting/

Ian

i have isnipe and it was $7-8.

I too have just started and i found it easier to ask one of the other shooters i know how much wind he dialed in and then start from there. I looked at a handheld wind meter and will probabily go down that path. After all its only a starting point.

I shot 600 & 700 yards for the first time on saturday and when i entered th info into isnipe it gave me the elevation and it was spot on.

So it's ok to use a Kestrel etc. at the range or even while on the mound?
I mentioned I may try using a wind meter and one of the old hands at the club said I'd be run off any range in Australia if I tried using one. Thing is, I can't find anything in the SSR's that would stop me. Any opinions?

cheers, Chris

G'Day Chris,
ah this takes me back.............

As a Newbie I innocently asked about using some BR windflags, even putting them out for all to use and boy did THAT cause a STORM! I was sure some F classer's wanted to crucify me!

Absolutely nothing in the rule book, carefully reading it at the time even suggested you could use any flag provided they were different from the regular range flags, but there is a little rule in the SSR's about "unfair advantage" or some such. That one will undo you everytime! And it depends on the RO's intrepretation too.

I'd suggest reading the meter behind the mound to get the min-max speeds/humidity, DA, etc and then compare readings to the flags behaviour, but I'd turn if off on the mound or leave it behind the mound. Certainly not visible to you while you shoot!

good luck!

Cheerio Geoff

A lot of codswollop if you ask me, can't see any reason to not use one, the reality is that what its saying on the mound and what is happening on you projectile flight path is two different things, so where's the advantage.

But as Geoff said play with it before hand and don't take it to the mound, not a damn thing they can do about you making observations before your shoot. If there was a problem then the rest of us would have to be blindfolded so we couldn't watch the flags while others were shooting, or watch where other's shots were falling through scopes etc.

BTW Geoff I still don't see why BR flags are a problem, but meh.

I see lots of them used at the range. They're very useful for those people who are going to use the wind speed for input into ballistics program.

They're also good for seeing how much the wind varies; how it's gusting and dropping off. Basically all the stuff the the old guys took years to learn to read from the flags.

One of the big issues i've encountered in this area is the inaccuracy of the flag drawings that people have in their toolkit. Things like the old sweets plotting books show the flags in certain positions for certain wind speeds with values next to them. While the diagram and table are correct when used together the actual wind speeds that it says for the flag positions are not correct.

I spent a lot of weekends correlating flag positions, final scope adjustments and BOM data from the next headland (to malabar). I determined that the wind speeds indicated in the sweets plotting book are wrong. In trying to understand why I can only speculate that they are actually in knots and not mph. Why? Who knows but they are wrong. If you're shooting a 308 though the diagrams and tables are accurate but those shooting something different like a 223 you won't be where you want to be.

I've seen a lot of new shooters get shown in the sweets plotting book how to get the wind speed from the flags. They then plug that into their favourite ballistic program and then dial in the wind for a big miss.

For them the kestrels, et al. are the way to go.

As it's been pointed out though. It's not much use when you're actually shooting so it's important to learn to read the flags.

AND "mirage". Can't get that in electronics I shot at Bendigo 3+ years ago, could not make head nor tail from the flags, BUT, there was a mirage running right to left and by shooting when the mirage was running I managed to shoot a straight 60 [kept sighters] at 1000yds Still feel good about that Flag values are only a rough starting indicater as they vary between rifle ranges as some have new flags of correct weight,some have old flags that are so thin that the flatulence from the mound can lift them I prefer not to use a standard flag position and wind speed, but to do all my adjustments in points, that means I give each range a points value to the flag positions as "I" see it. What may be 2 points on one range may be 2.5 on another. Another variable is the contour of the range, if it is dished[like Malabar] then at the long distances the flags are so far below the path of the projectile they don't always give a true indication of what is happening. It comes back to knowing each ranges peculiarities and that is why,if you shoot a Queens, it always pays to shoot the lead up[unless you are James ] Observation and adaption are your best teachers. Ray.