Problems with CCI 450s

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Trevor Rhodes
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Woodbrook Vic.

Problems with CCI 450s

#1 Postby Trevor Rhodes » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:36 pm

Does any one else have problems with CCl 450 mags. l have a lot of misfires, I'm using Barnard actions which l
know they have a short firing pin protrusion.

neil y
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#2 Postby neil y » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:59 pm

Problems with CCI br4 and others with CCI in general.Changed to Federal and problem went.Barnard actions as far as I know.

Cutanything
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:07 am
Location: Qld

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#3 Postby Cutanything » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:12 pm

Yes they have caused a few problems for our club members and myself . cci450 i have problem with in omark 223 Omark 308 and savage 223 ,308 all had plenty of firing pin contact but faild to ignite

UL1700
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#4 Postby UL1700 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:28 pm

I thought I was as I had one not fire in the 308 then had a bunch of issues in the 6mm. Turned out that my 8 month old sucking on a 308 case had done it no good and the 6mm was just the joys of fire forming from 6br to Dasher. Bit of a relief as I have 8000 CCI450s in the safe :wink:

ben_g
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#5 Postby ben_g » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:35 pm

Trev I have fired several thousand 450’s with my barnard in the last couple of years without issue, I have just started using a new lot no in the last few weeks I can check it for you if you like.

Wal86
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:10 pm
Location: Kilmore, VIC

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#6 Postby Wal86 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:39 pm

A member from my club had issues with 450's at a prize meeting, where he had nearly 20 miss fires and tried another bolt before giving it away... He ended up giving me that brick of 450's.. My young bloke has been using them all year in his dasher and hasn't had a single miss fire...

Barry Davies
Posts: 1203
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#7 Postby Barry Davies » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:25 am

Insufficient striker energy and/or striker protrusion or too much head space.

UL1700
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#8 Postby UL1700 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:50 pm

Barry Davies wrote:Insufficient striker energy and/or striker protrusion or too much head space.


I think that head space is the key! With low striker energy / protrusion the hard cup of the 450 is extremely unforgiving. Until FF my Dashers I had never had a problem with a 450. Despite jamming the projectile hard (very hard to close the bolt) I still had misfires and despite a reasonable impact crater I still had no bang. Along with a mate who has been shooting them by the 1000 for decades, we both only neck size (unless bolt closure becomes heavy) and don't have issues. That's not to say that there aren't issues with the 450 it's just that ensuring good case fit in the chamber becomes essential when using them.

Trevor Rhodes
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Woodbrook Vic.

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#9 Postby Trevor Rhodes » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:03 pm

In my Dasher after hydro forming yes headspace is an issue, but my 308s l just bump the shoulder down 1 to 2.5 thou on a fired case after a little spring back.

Pommy Chris
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#10 Postby Pommy Chris » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:51 pm

The 450's dont have a problem like the Br's any isuses with 450 is probably headspace. I have fired thousands and thousands without a single issue. Those having issues are you full length resizing? My guess is yes and you are getting head space wrong.
Chris

Wal86
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:10 pm
Location: Kilmore, VIC

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#11 Postby Wal86 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:39 am

Pommy Chris wrote:The 450's dont have a problem like the Br's any isuses with 450 is probably headspace. I have fired thousands and thousands without a single issue. Those having issues are you full length resizing? My guess is yes and you are getting head space wrong.
Chris


=D> "PRICELESS"
See Equipment and Technical, Topic was "several primers not showing much pin strike".... 8)

Pommy Chris
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#12 Postby Pommy Chris » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:41 am

Wal86 wrote:
Pommy Chris wrote:The 450's dont have a problem like the Br's any isuses with 450 is probably headspace. I have fired thousands and thousands without a single issue. Those having issues are you full length resizing? My guess is yes and you are getting head space wrong.
Chris


=D> "PRICELESS"
See Equipment and Technical, Topic was "several primers not showing much pin strike".... 8)

That thread was about BR primers and there was an issue. The 450's are different and as far as I am aware there are no known issues with 450's. With the BR primers at a Queens those who has issues were asked to put there hand up and this resulted in maybe 15 hands raised. The 450 is a really reliable primer so if it is failing to go off most likely head space.
Chris

wsftr
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#13 Postby wsftr » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:33 pm

Trevor Rhodes wrote:Does any one else have problems with CCl 450 mags. l have a lot of misfires, I'm using Barnard actions which l
know they have a short firing pin protrusion.

I shoot them exclusively in a 6Br and .308. I never had an issue (I wore the 6br barrel out using them) until i bought a 21 century primer seating tool (adjustable). In the .308 I suddenly had a miss fire but the primer had a real good dent in it. I adjusted the primer in another .002". Yip another two miss fires, again with big dents. Hmm...adjusted it in a further .006". never had a miss fire since.

My take away - if the primer has a good dent in it but no bang...seat the primer deeper.
Note I FLS but I measure every sized case, so it was easy for me to go to the conclusion of seating the primer deeper. I can see head space causing an issue...
If the primer has a good solid dent then i would look to either seating the primer deeper or head space or both....

Pommy Chris
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#14 Postby Pommy Chris » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:11 am

wsftr wrote:
Trevor Rhodes wrote:Does any one else have problems with CCl 450 mags. l have a lot of misfires, I'm using Barnard actions which l
know they have a short firing pin protrusion.

I shoot them exclusively in a 6Br and .308. I never had an issue (I wore the 6br barrel out using them) until i bought a 21 century primer seating tool (adjustable). In the .308 I suddenly had a miss fire but the primer had a real good dent in it. I adjusted the primer in another .002". Yip another two miss fires, again with big dents. Hmm...adjusted it in a further .006". never had a miss fire since.

My take away - if the primer has a good dent in it but no bang...seat the primer deeper.
Note I FLS but I measure every sized case, so it was easy for me to go to the conclusion of seating the primer deeper. I can see head space causing an issue...
If the primer has a good solid dent then i would look to either seating the primer deeper or head space or both....

If primer is not fully seated the strike pushes the primer forward (energy lost) so it can cause misfires.
Chris

wsftr
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: Problems with CCI 450s

#15 Postby wsftr » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:33 pm

Pommy Chris wrote:
wsftr wrote:
Trevor Rhodes wrote:Does any one else have problems with CCl 450 mags. l have a lot of misfires, I'm using Barnard actions which l
know they have a short firing pin protrusion.

I shoot them exclusively in a 6Br and .308. I never had an issue (I wore the 6br barrel out using them) until i bought a 21 century primer seating tool (adjustable). In the .308 I suddenly had a miss fire but the primer had a real good dent in it. I adjusted the primer in another .002". Yip another two miss fires, again with big dents. Hmm...adjusted it in a further .006". never had a miss fire since.

My take away - if the primer has a good dent in it but no bang...seat the primer deeper.
Note I FLS but I measure every sized case, so it was easy for me to go to the conclusion of seating the primer deeper. I can see head space causing an issue...
If the primer has a good solid dent then i would look to either seating the primer deeper or head space or both....

If primer is not fully seated the strike pushes the primer forward (energy lost) so it can cause misfires.
Chris

Could be that. What I found interesting was the primer was significantly dented. i.e. the firing pin had hit it with force. I think if the primer isn't seated deep enough the biscuit doesn't get cracked in the correct way to cause ignition.
Anyways - more my point is - a significant dent generally indicates a good primer strike and there is something else wrong such as needing to seat the primer deeper. For me that meant .008" (from memory) i.e. not much.

I suspect a shallow dent is firing pin issues or possibly head space. A large dent is most likely primer seating or maybe head space.


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