Scales

[Jason72]

Hi all

Looking for some opinions from a target shooting perspective rather than a hunting perspective, so to be clear, looking for answers to improve 6's to X's in F-Class.

What brand is a reliable, accurate beam scale?
What brand is a reliable, accurate electronic scale which measures grains to 2 x decimal places as a minimum?
Which scale is better and why?

Not to offend, but looking to those who shoot well in target shooting to give their opinions, not those who think they shoot well.

Cheers
Jason

[lonerider43]

mate,ive had expensive electric scales and ive had cheap ones.
the cheap ones [evilbay] that measure .00 gn and are consistant work just as well as expensive ones.
but make sure they have a decent sized pan.
just to be sure i took the scale weight that came with it to the jewelers and had it weighed.spot on 10gram.
the scales weigh it exactly.
some weigh in .01 some in .02 [but flick from .00 to .02] thats the difference of 1 granule of 2208.

i hope that helps some what.

[Matt P]

Redding no 2 beam scale under $200, or A&D FX300 or better (must be magnetic force restoration) $1000 plus and in my opinion nothing in between.
Matt P

[pjifl]

With all scales of all qualities, make check weights and use them frequently during a long weighing session.

I usually try a check weight at the end of every row of 10 in a bullet box. A cheap balance suddenly becomes a higher precision and higher reliable item and can then produce loads as consistently as a more expensive balance. There is nothing worse than having to pull lots of projectiles because some unnoticed error has crept in.

Make check weights from non magnetic material. Moderately thin copper sheet can be cut and trimmed with scissors.

If you trim slightly too much, some correcting fluid on the weight will add small amounts back. Write on them with a felt pen.

A check weight does not have to be absolutely perfect. Even if slightly inaccurate, it still ensures consistency which is more important.

Peter Smith.

[willow]

Never tried a beam scale but started off with a Lyman Gen 5 electronic scale which got me by for 3-4 years before dropping the hammer on a set of A&D FZ500i scales ($1300), then discovered the Lyman would throw as much as 0.2gr under or over, for a 0.4gr variance. Not ideal for F-class so in terms of electronic scales, I'm a believer in you get what you pay for. Added the Autotrickler V3 to the A&D scales and haven't looked back.

[ben_g]

I think I’ve posted this picture before.

I use a set of 10/10 beam scales, a webcam and an electronic trickler.

It may not be very fast, but if you use it properly I think it’s more precise than anything electronic short of an A&D. It will resolve a single grain of Re15 and results on paper and over the chronograph prove it’s not the powder weighing thats holding me back.

Learning to read the wind and apply tactics will turn your 6’s to X’s. Not resolving powder charge to two decimal places.

E06DCCCB-8682-4D75-A843-48263F3A558C.png

[Gyro]

I just have a beam scale, an old Ohaus 505 and it is accurate to a kernel of 2209. I know that because I have checked it against a mates very expensive digital scales. They are slower to use tho but will save you money re buying a worthwhile electronic scale. Check this link ......... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11876&hilit=ohaus+505&start=30 ....... then scroll down to my post where I put up some pics of mods I made to my Ohaus scales. Those mods really helped.

[williada]

Rob, I have gone back to the beam scale and yes its an old Ohaus. Got sick of the fluctuations in the electronic stuff.

[Jason72]

Thank you all for your time and information, very useful for me.

Cheers
Jason

[wsftr]

I use a beam scale and an A&D. the beam scale I use is a tuned one in that it is very sensitive and will register 1 kernel.
The A&D still drifts for me. I have certified check weights for the A&D which I also use on the beam scale.
I like that I can compare the two on any given day and over time have built up a distribution range. Beam scales you really need a fine pointer and can be very fiddly to get it absolutely zeroed.
I have found with a beam scale depending on the charge weight depends on how repeatable the beam scale will be as there seems to be a rough optimum sensitivity/repeatability range.
IMO 6s to xs is less about powder charge and more about seating depth, technique and setup.
YMMV

[UL1700]

Full time job, two of us shooting and an old drafty weatherboard meant that the 10-10 beam scale got tossed in the bin pretty quickly! AnD FX300i with a check weight and auto trickler and you are throwing +/- 0.02gn loads every 10 seconds or so. Personally i throw 0.02 under then add an extra kernel with a Dandy trickler when required. As said if going electronic, get a moving magnetic type. load cells can be accurate but they don't respond fast enough when trickling powder.

[pjifl]

Beam scales can be quite good. Slower and more fiddly.

Precision is best ascertained by repeated weighing of an object. You will usually find that the maximum sensitivity is not necessarily a measure of repeatability. Knife edges impose limits to repeatability on beam scales. Thus magnifying the pointer may not be as advantageous as it seems.

All scales can have issues. Often not the scales but related problems. Air currents are a real problem - even hotter air from breathing.

It can be worth having a semi enclosure for a beam scale. The pan can be half hidden at one end. Front can be see through plastic sheet. Drift in lab scales always occurs to some extent. Hence frequent check weight use.

Hold your warm hand above a good lab scales and the rising air changes zero. Cool air sinks. Air Con is a no no when weighing. It can be a disaster.

Basic but often forgotten is to have a cleared area with a white 'tablecloth'. If you see any kernels on the white surface stop and investigate.

A few unnoticed kernels spilled on a lab scale pan changes zero. Which a check weight will pick up.

Clean knife edges on beam scales. Be aware that dust or spider webs on the beam near the damping magnets can destroy accuracy and not be noticed.

All these are good reasons to frequently use a check weight.

The comment about seating depth, cases, concentricity etc being more important is quite true. Don't get too fixated on weighing and forget the other possible loading problems. Precise weighing is mainly for long range when you have everything else under control.

Peter Smith.

[Tim N]

I use an A&D 300 with the auto trickler and my pan is the check weight for each load.
As long as it throws within a granule powder I’m happy
This method is more about convenience than greater accuracy when compared to a beam scale.
As Ben said there’s plenty of other variables to try and control.
Good luck with your choice.

[Jason72]

Thank you all for the information, has definitely given me some things to think about.

Cheers
Jason

[Blindbat]

I too am just beginning in F Class and I happened upon a A&D MC1000....accurate to .002gn apparently. Is this overkill?