Lobbiest have lever actions in sights / NFA Review

For general announcements, and anything which does not fit into one of the categories below.

Moderator: Mod

Message
Author
Longranger
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:49 pm
Location: Queensland

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#31 Postby Longranger » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:22 pm

Lobbyists have more than lever action shotguns to eliminate. Ultimately they want complete disarmament of the population. Little by little they will try to achieve this. Logic doesn't come into it. They are happily supported by both major parties.

Just remember Port Arthur, the planning and aftermath...

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#32 Postby plumbs7 » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:08 am

This is for macguru , and saying that I make things up!
This is what a Labour greens government was going to do to us in 2010. But all of the licences shooters and industry players United to defeat the bill.

LAFO Issues Bulletin No 1 – Proposed changes to Qld Weapons Act

Introduction

On the 1st of July, Law Abiding Firearm Owners (LAFO) initiated a campaign against the proposed changes to the Queensland Weapons Act. A significant wall of secrecy surrounded the review of the Weapons Act. Due to an overwhelming response from Queensland’s Law Abiding Firearm Owners, the Queensland Government decided to do the “right thing” and undertook to release a draft consultation Bill and Regulation. We commend the Government on this decision. Publication of the documents occurred on 4 August 2010. Links to these documents are at the foot of this page. Unfortunately the issues raised by LAFO are still contained within the draft legislation. Most of the proposed changes are simply misguided, poorly targeted and impose unjust and unnecessary burdens on Queensland’s Law Abiding Firearm Owners. The current proposals do not reflect any of the key recommendations made by Shooting organisations. The consultation process undertaken over the last three years could be best described as very poor. LAFO supports and encourages government to implement effective and targeted regulation of people who misuse weapons. However the current proposals impose unjust and unnecessary burdens on an already tightly regulated and law abiding segment of the Queensland community without any increase in public safety.

What key changes are being proposed to the Weapons Act 1990?

1) Participation requirements for Category C shotguns
2) Greater red-tape for the storage and transportation of guns
3) Registration of permanently deactivated category A, B &C firearms and Antique handguns
4) Registration of imitation weapons
5) Re-categorisation of weapons and NO compensation payable by the Government if a firearm is recategorised
6) Enlarged discretionary powers for the administration of the Act
7) Licensing cost increases

1. What does it mean to have participation requirements for Category C shotguns?

It is proposed to require a Category C shotgun licensee who possesses his or her firearm for sport or target shooting to compete in four (4) competitions per year (Section 81 draft Bill). This seems to be a small but clear move down the path where participation conditions are a requirement for virtually all long arm licensees.

2. Storage and transportation of guns

Section 162(c) of the draft Bill requires, at a minimum, that the average licensed shooter possess a secure storage facility in the form of a secure receptacle. The average licensed shooter must store his or her firearm in the secure receptacle (no problems with that). However instead of having the action broken (Section 60(2) Weapons Regulation 1996), the firearm must be temporarily deactivated (section 165 (1)(b) draft Bill). The draft Regulation is diabolical, unless you have a bolt action firearm and can remove the bolt AND store the bolt separately (Section 7 draft Regulation), you must fit a trigger lock (or an additional locking mechanism), even when stored in a safe. You must also make sure you don’t have any tools lying around your secure storage facility otherwise you could go to jail for 2 years (section 165 (1)(c) draft Bill). In addition, shooters will also have to fit trigger locks (unless it is a bolt action where the bolt can be removed) when transporting firearms(section 167 (1) draft Bill). There are no public safety, nor logical reasons for these changes. This will mean virtually every shooter whom has an air rifle, .22 and an old shotgun will have to purchase multiple trigger locks (or additional locking mechanisms) and probably another safe for the bolts. Many licensed shooters have 3-4 firearms. At an average cost of $30 for a good quality lock this means a cost of between $90 -$120. As this provision will apply to all shooters regardless of when their licence was issued (section 60(3) draft Regulation), assuming 50% of firearms are bolt action that means a cost to Queensland’s shooting community (approximately 150 000 shooters) of between $6.7M to $9M for absolutely zero public safety increase. Remember these guns are already stored in safes. These are unjust and unnecessary proposals. Queensland shooters comply with the law and make sure their guns are locked away in a proper safe. Will the community be safer with Queensland’s Law Abiding Firearm Owners fitting trigger locks? Do you think criminals will fit trigger locks to their illegally possessed, carried and used firearms?

3. Registration of permanently deactivated category A, B& C firearms and Antique handguns

Deactivated Category A,B & C firearms and Antique handguns will become regulated items. They must be registered (section 253 and 244 draft Bill) and stored safely(sections 258 & 249 draft Bill). Many people in Queensland possess broken slug guns and old hunting rifles. These non-functioning firearms pose absolutely no threat to public safety nor have they posed a threat to public safety since the Weapons Legislation commenced in 1990. Has the Queensland Community been at risk for 20 years?

4.Registration of imitation weapons (i.e. toy guns)

The proposed legislation provides that an imitation weapon is a reasonable copy of a weapon, and could reasonably taken to be a weapon and can not be discharged (section 11 draft Bill). LAFO understands the intent behind this proposal is to reduce the incidence of replicas being used to hold up stores or to commit other crimes. However, the question begs itself, “Why on earth would a criminal intent on holding up a store bother to register his or her replica handgun?” A recent Courier-mail report (4/8/10) quoted a Government representative as saying ”we just want to know where they (imitation guns) are”. As well intentioned as this comment may be the statement demonstrates pure ignorance of reality. It has become very clear in recent weeks that criminals who use weapons to commit crimes don’t tell the police where their real guns are let alone where their imitation guns are. The proposed approach is wrong headed. LAFO suggests minimum prison sentences for people who use any sort of weapon to hold up stores or commit crimes and greater funding for the Queensland Police Service to field more officers on the street.

5. Recategorisation of Weapons – NO compensation payable for recategorised guns.

The current Weapons Categories Regulation 1997 is a straightforward document. It ensures firearms of particular types are clearly designated into the various categories. It is easy for the average shooter to read, understand and know his or her responsibilities. However the proposed legislation allows a firearm to be classed as a Category D weapon if it appears (section 7(1)(b) draft Weapons Category Regulation) to duplicate a Category D weapon or is an imitation of a weapon (section 7(4) draft Weapons Category Regulation). If you possess any sort of rifle or shotgun and it appears to look like a Category D weapon then it may very well be classified as a Category D weapon. If you are not licensed for a Cat D Firearm (and very few shooters are) then you will have the firearm confiscated by the Government but will not receive compensation (section 386 draft Bill). This is a reprehensible turn of events and once again provides unjustifiable operational discretion to those administering the Act and erodes a person’s rights to their property.

6. Powers to administer the Act

The proposal provides carte blanche control to persons administering the Act (sections 59 and 60 draft Bill). The powers under the current Act already cause much angst to the average Law Abiding Firearm Owner. Problematically the draft Regulation is almost larger than the Bill. The Regulation provides the “devil in the detail” or the “operational detail”. As you would be aware from your own lives and occupations, quite often the “devil in the detail” is very difficult to determine. It is for this reason, much of the contents of the Regulation should be returned to the Act. This will ensure certainty for those affected by the Act. It will also ensure full and proper Parliamentary scrutiny should any further changes be proposed. Parliamentary scrutiny is virtually absent when Regulations are amended. The current proposal provides even more power and discretion in the administration of the Act regarding subjective decisions about licenses, licence conditions, licence renewals and permit to acquire approvals etc. The goal posts are already moved on a regular basis and will only become worse under the current proposal.

7. Why have licensing fees doubled?

No one knows. Regrettably this simply appears to be an unjustifiable tax leveled on Queensland shooters. As of 1 August 2010 a new 5 year firearms licence costs $210.75 including both the licence and application fee, while a permit to acquire a firearm now costs $30.00. Renewing a firearms licence for five years will cost $131.25 (up from $58.50). These increases will net a windfall of almost $5 million dollars for the police budget with no increase to public safety. This is all purely about administrative law enforcement and does not focus on criminals who misuse weapons.

Why should I write an email or letter?

Letters from individuals are the most effective way to let the Government know how a particular issue is received by the community. Shooters live in all parts of Queensland. It is important for us to have an effective voice. Do NOT rely on your mate to write. The combined voice of Queensland’s Law Abiding Firearm Owners resulted in the Government releasing a consultation draft of the Weapons Bill and Weapons Regulation. We commend the Government for this wise decision. If you have already written to the Government, please resubmit your submission to the Weapons Review Secretariat. If all 150,000 plus Queensland shooters and their families write to the Weapons Review Secretariat, our voice will be heard and hopefully common sense will prevail. Forward this information and a link to www.lafo.com.au to at least 10 fellow shooters and encourage them to send it to 10 of their fellow shooters. See how quickly this can snowball?

What can I do to ensure the Government does not enact these unfair and unjust proposals?

You must write a letter or send an e-mail to the Weapons Act Review Secretariat, the Premier, Deputy Premier and the Police Minister. If you do not, you will lose more of your freedoms. It is about time the Government realised Queensland’s licensed shooters are sick and tired of being marginalised. We will stand up for ourselves, our sport, our occupation and other lawful uses of firearms. We strongly object to the proposed changes.

How do I write an email or letter?

Think about how you would discuss this issue with a friend at the pub, church, sporting club or shopping centre. Now just write it down as you said it. Make sure you always include your name and address. That way you will be taken seriously. If you are concerned about this process, please click here.

What are the key points that my letter should include?
- NO participation requirements for long arms of any description.
- NO increased storage requirements – NO trigger locks
- NO increased transportation requirements
- NO registration of permanently deactivated category A, B &C firearms and Antique handguns
- NO registration of imitation weapons
- NO recategorisation of weapons
- Remove the “No Compensation” provision.
- Limit and reduce the discretionary powers for the administration of the Act
– Basic licence conditions to be removed from the Regulation and included in the Act
- Licensing cost increases – cancel1 August 2010 fee increase.
- The Government should go back to the drawing board and review the Weapons Act using an open, transparent and consultative approach instead of imposing its policy positions upon the shooting community with a sham consultation process.

Weapons Act Review Secretariat: Click here to e-mail the Weapons Act Review Secretariat

Weapons Secretariat Postal Address
The Secretariat
Weapons Act Review
Level 2, Tourism House
30 Makerston Street
GPO Box 1440
BRISBANE QLD 4001

The Courier-Mail – 4 August 2010 – Toy guns to be licenced
ABC Stateline – 13 August 2010 – War game operators fear new gun laws
Draft Weapons Bill
Draft Weapons Regulation
Qld Govt Submission Web-site

Updated: August 20, 2010

Longranger
Posts: 254
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:49 pm
Location: Queensland

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#33 Postby Longranger » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:22 am

Essentially upon reading this you cannot help thinking that it is all about making life as a legitimate firearms owner as difficult as possible. Trigger locks on a firearm stored in a safe.... really! If someone wants to steal your firearms and break into your safe then a trigger lock is hardly an impediment.

Participation requirements are a slippery slope. Many LAFO's work either overseas or rosters which can make meeting such requirements difficult to achieve. There is no justification or need for this and I doubt these requirements would ever be proven useful with firearms offenses statistics.

Note I do not use the word weapons instead of firearms as it portrays use against persons in a criminal way. We don't come under that category except in the eyes of the government. I guess legitimate firearms owners are regarded as a threat regardless of statistics. That doesn't give much comfort but it does indicate where things are headed.

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#34 Postby plumbs7 » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:16 pm

Longranger wrote:Essentially upon reading this you cannot help thinking that it is all about making life as a legitimate firearms owner as difficult as possible. Trigger locks on a firearm stored in a safe.... really! If someone wants to steal your firearms and break into your safe then a trigger lock is hardly an impediment.

Participation requirements are a slippery slope. Many LAFO's work either overseas or rosters which can make meeting such requirements difficult to achieve. There is no justification or need for this and I doubt these requirements would ever be proven useful with firearms offenses statistics.

Note I do not use the word weapons instead of firearms as it portrays use against persons in a criminal way. We don't come under that category except in the eyes of the government. I guess legitimate firearms owners are regarded as a threat regardless of statistics. That doesn't give much comfort but it does indicate where things are headed.


This is what we were up against in 2010! The labour gov gave us 2 weeks to wright submissions and read through it all!
After recieving a record number of submissions the gov backed down. And after that Ssaa and Shooter Union had a good working relationship .

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#35 Postby plumbs7 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:02 pm

I'll be glad when this is over . We have to the 5 th so I read ! Write submissions etc. there is a Qld parliament petetion going right now . Feel free to sign it if ur a Queenslanders !
Here is the link

http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/work-o ... etNum=2494

Steve N
Posts: 462
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:16 pm
Location: Gippsland Victoria.

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#36 Postby Steve N » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:24 pm

Emails sent. Petition added to. Hope my bit helps but cannot help feeling that they will do what they want and use the anti's senseless arguments as justification for "Public demand"....
I have given up voting for either of the major parties and tell them straight up why. Usually get a sympathetic nod..

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#37 Postby plumbs7 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:34 pm

Yep mine sent too! We will go down fighting anyway mate!

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights / Qld e petition

#38 Postby plumbs7 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:35 pm

An update from Ssaa.

Latest on NFA from key meeting of police ministers and legislators
SSAA National welcomes the commonsense comments that came out of the Law, Crime and Community Safety Council (LCCSC) meeting on November 5, particularly in relation to the National Firearms Agreement (NFA) review and the clear distinction between registered firearms and unregistered firearms. Following the meeting it became apparent that various police ministers were not in favour of re-categorising lever-action shotguns of a capacity greater than five shots.

Justice Minister Michael Keenan’s office contacted the SSAA to advise that further discussions regarding the NFA will not, in all likelihood, take place until an April 2016 meeting of the National Justice and Policing Senior Officials Group (NJPSOG).

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights / Qld e petition

#39 Postby plumbs7 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:00 pm

Update from shooters Union qld!

Display problems? View this newsletter in your browser.

Towards Fairer Gun Laws Forum
Shooters Make a Difference!
Dear Graham

The recent events surrounding the NFA review and the meeting of the Law, Crime and Community Safety Council yesterday has resulted in the proposal as tabled by Justice Minister Keenan being rejected by several states either in its entire form or part thereof. As a result further actions with respect to the NFA will be deferred until a meeting in April 2016.

The good news is common sense and logic is starting to rise to the surface and several state police ministers have been publically seen as standing strong on issues like the lever action shotgun as well as declaring law abiding licenced shooters are not the problem and that criminal activity is where the focus should be.


Watch the full video here
Courtesy SSAA TV

It should be stated that presently the lever action shotgun matter is not over, and could well need defending again in 2016, however this significant milestone has proven the work done by leading associations such as Shooters Union, Agforce, National Farmers Federation, SIFA and the SSAA has been effective.

The biggest influential force however was not any one group, rather all of them, and supported in unity by the many tens of thousands of firearm owners who have been writing to, calling and meeting with their local members for state and federal parliament. This is where the biggest impact has been made. Your representative associations work really hard behind the scenes; however without the members showing they too are committed this work would be in vain. A big thank you to all who were prepared to politely educate the politicians representing them, and urging them to consider logic and common sense over emotional hype and misinformation when dealing with firearm issues. You are to be congratulated.

Interestingly, whilst thousands of people across Australia contacted politicians in various ways, Gun Control Australia (the largest extremist group) decided to have a “mass Rally” yesterday that people could join to protest and encourage the governments to act and ban more firearms, guess who showed up to the “mass rally”? Yes, the only ones who turned up beside GCA and the invited media were three people, all firearm enthusiasts who politely corrected the hype and misinformation being presented.


See the Nioa.tv Facebook post here
BEWARE: In closing, do not become complacent. The anti-firearm brigade will no doubt reconvene in their phone booth sized boardroom and continue their campaign of misinformation and using victims of criminals to further their cause. This strategically significant success is not the end, and we at Shooters Union encourage all our members to keep fighting for our firearms industry, and our right to enjoy our lawful sporting pursuits.

The Shooters Union Committee
www.shootersunion.com.au




Hi all , as the above says it's not over yet ! Over the past must be nearly 6 months we have gone from loosing all of our "moffw " ( manually operated fast firing weapons " aka lever actions. To now a common sense approach of what the real issues are . As of writing this the Qld e Partition is at 1728 signatures which is an outstanding effort considering it was only 6 days ago since it started !

It is so unfortunate that F class / tr fraternity , especially since we are normally ultra conservative . Has had to with othe law abiding citizens have to yet once again defend ourselves . It was only at the beginning of this year that we had the Greens sponsor a witch hunt style senate inquiry . In which licenced shooters were again vindicated ! I wish ani gun advocates would just leave us alone and unite with law enforcement to help find the illegal guns and the criminals that use them.

I have not at all enjoyed having to so publicly come out and "rally the troops". Would be much easer to roll over . I guess my Dad once said " easier to be nothing but bloody hard to do or be something!" It's a matra that has ruled my life !

In closing hopefully for sometime! In 1996 my heart bled with the rest of the nation at Port Arthur. But the fact is if the law was followed in the first place mr Bryant wouldn't have had those firearms . One was even alledegly from a previous buy back?? So I have read!

I guess we will never know as he plead guilty and it was quickly swept under the carpet ! We have enquiries about everything , even the latest floods ( several of them !) but none for one of our darkest days in this Great Nation's history!

We live in a great country that our Soldiers have fought to keep free and God Bless this country and its freedom of speech !

Yours faithfully Graham Sells Dalby / Tara RC

Tim L
Posts: 876
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: Townsville

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights / Qld e petition

#40 Postby Tim L » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:19 am

Graham,
Thank you for your efforts.
It was good to see the acting Premier of NSW take the mocrophone and accurately point the finger at Mr Shoebridge as the source of misinformation and scare tactics.
I (probably like most firearms owners) don't have an issue with 'gun control' and hopefully we will see it steered in the right direction so it will be 'effective' gun control. Perhaps if gun control Australia could shed off the extremist bigotry they could actually be useful. As it is they are just a nuisance organisation, not just for lafos but for the whole debate. At least that is now being recognised by the authorities.
Thanks again Graham

Peter L
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:17 am
Location: Bacchus Marsh

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights

#41 Postby Peter L » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:00 am

AlanF wrote:The Shooters and Fishers Party are not typical politicians. Unlike the major parties, our rights are one of their major concerns. In these days of minority government in upper houses, they only need a seat or two in each State upper house to make deals with major parties and get things done. Getting a few Shooters and Fishers candidates elected is much more effective than lobbying local pollies.

The goverment and major parties,intend to keep on chipping away the conditions regarding firearms,a little bit at a time.They will make it so hard to keep a rifle.For examle,hard laws how to transport it,to store it(them) in a central safe if you're a couple of days away,if you keep a box of primers on your desk it'd be an offence,and the list goes on and on.The only way to stop that, is to join the S&F party,I did!It's only $30 a year.That's the only way I can see for the future of firearms ownership.If we did nothing,then it's no point to complain and remember the good old days.
Cheers
Peter

Sam Walker
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: South West of WA

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights / Qld e petition

#42 Postby Sam Walker » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:59 pm

Tim L wrote:Graham,
Thank you for your efforts.
It was good to see the acting Premier of NSW take the mocrophone and accurately point the finger at Mr Shoebridge as the source of misinformation and scare tactics.
I (probably like most firearms owners) don't have an issue with 'gun control' and hopefully we will see it steered in the right direction so it will be 'effective' gun control. Perhaps if gun control Australia could shed off the extremist bigotry they could actually be useful. As it is they are just a nuisance organisation, not just for lafos but for the whole debate. At least that is now being recognised by the authorities.
Thanks again Graham


Re the bit in bold

This is quite naive ! the proponents of Gun Control are all about banning the shooting sports by slowly tightening the noose of restrictions.

It is a policy of the Greens to put an end to private firearms ownership. If you believe they will ever become reasonable, you are just kidding yourself !

Shooters of all disciplines need to work together at opposing the "death by a thousand cuts"
Sam

Peter L
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:17 am
Location: Bacchus Marsh

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights / Qld e petition

#43 Postby Peter L » Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:41 pm

Sam Walker wrote:
Tim L wrote:Graham,
Thank you for your efforts.
It was good to see the acting Premier of NSW take the mocrophone and accurately point the finger at Mr Shoebridge as the source of misinformation and scare tactics.
I (probably like most firearms owners) don't have an issue with 'gun control' and hopefully we will see it steered in the right direction so it will be 'effective' gun control. Perhaps if gun control Australia could shed off the extremist bigotry they could actually be useful. As it is they are just a nuisance organisation, not just for lafos but for the whole debate. At least that is now being recognised by the authorities.
Thanks again Graham


Re the bit in bold

This is quite naive ! the proponents of Gun Control are all about banning the shooting sports by slowly tightening the noose of restrictions.

It is a policy of the Greens to put an end to private firearms ownership. If you believe they will ever become reasonable, you are just kidding yourself !

Shooters of all disciplines need to work together at opposing the "death by a thousand cuts"

OK.Shooters of all disciplines need to work together.....May I ask any body in this forum,how can we achieve anything by just writing ideas in this forum and being armchair warriors?Do not vote for the major parties especially the GREENS.Ask your friends and relatives to do the same.Tell to your local MP that he/she is not getting your vote!!!!!
Cheers
Peter

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights / Qld e petition

#44 Postby plumbs7 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:11 pm


sevenmil
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:16 pm

Re: Lobbiest have lever actions in sights / Qld e petition

#45 Postby sevenmil » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:18 pm

=D> =D> =D> =D> Right on Peter. The sooner we get together as unified shooting enthusiasts, the more likelihood shooting will have some hope of survival in this country.

If we don't unify and grow, shooting as a sport is gone...


Return to “General Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests