F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

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Norm
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#91 Postby Norm » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:20 pm

Our range license states in the standing orders that shooting can only occur in accordance with the NRAA SSR's.
So unless something is written into the SSR's that outline this sort of shooting then it will not occur on our range.
This is how it is on most Victorian Rifle ranges I believe.

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#92 Postby DenisA » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:04 pm

I've taken the first step and submitted the motion to the club Secretary to present at our GM in late November. Having pressed the "send email" button I feel like I'm going to be very unpopular. Oh well, the worst that can happen is that they say no. I guess there's lots of colourful ways that could happen though. GULP :mrgreen:

SunnyCoast 5r
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#93 Postby SunnyCoast 5r » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:16 pm

Interesting reading...as a recent SSAA convert I strongly feel that this issue could be solved by heavily promoting FTR to SSAA clubs and just introduce a FTR class system (A&B just like FStd) if/when they all turn up.

I believe FTR IS GRADED in other countries.

Those of us with hunting/varmint/tactical rifles in 223 or 308 (very popular calibre on the SSAA benches) and a folding, Harris-type bipod (the type most shooters would describe as a bipod) using whatever loads as per the FTR rules could compete in B Grade. And have fun.

This would require very little adjustment for clubs.

Existing SSRs; existing targets; no new rules; grading system is familiar and would be no more difficult to administer than FSA/FSB; little impact (pun?) on TR members; not much more work for affiliated members; and we all just go shooting!

I thank Denis and all contributors for their comments to encourage new shooters like myself but I think we may just invent a new 'arms-race' without getting any new members AND upset the existing members in the process (still plenty of 'friendly' TR vs FClass comments at North Arm).

Denis might not have to worry about backlash either: easier motion to sell methinks.

PS If everyone has more appetite for rule changes then my brief investigation of the history of FTR suggests that the bipod rule intent was originally for folding, Harris-type devices as opposed to some of the contraptions we see now: can't we change specs back to this internationally? I note that past FTR winners used the Harris bipod pretty well. And would reduce costs and be more credible to SSAA newbies.

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#94 Postby DenisA » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:22 pm

In my opinion trying to change current discipline rules isn't a reality and nor is it wanted by the shooters that have worked so hard to get it off the ground in Aus and currently compete in it. Some at a great personal expense who regularly travel nationally and internationally. That wasn't my intention of this thread. It's probably quite insulting to tell the foundation FTR members that they should have to change their rules so that new members can be competitive without purchasing specific equipment.

My suggestion for an unofficial club level class is to attract and bring SSAA members over, allow them to experience the thrill of shooting long range in our environment (people, rules, course of fire, targets, etc) and encourage equipment upgrades and membership growth to our current disciplines.

If folding bi-pod shooters don't want to advance to the equipment requirements of the current disciplines, then there's no problem with that and they can continue shooting long range with like minded folding bi-pod shooters to compete with if the idea works.

My suggestion could not possibly turn into a new arms race.

SunnyCoast 5r
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#95 Postby SunnyCoast 5r » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:01 pm

I must have been reading many of the previous posts about weight limits/calibre restrictions etc in the wrong light. Looked like it could get expensive to me...8.5kg hunting rifle?

If equipment evolves in any class away from that intended ie a bipod looks pretty different on a FTR rig now compared to that used a few years ago by the U.S. Champ then maybe a review of the rules might be a good thing.

But back to the stated intention of getting SSAA shooters to F class: why create a new set of rules instead of just promoting the existing classes like FTR?

Surely most 223 / 308 hunting rifles could get on target @ 300m to 500y at least?

Use the KISS principle and they might turn up. And other members might go along with the plan.

Create a new class and existing members may just swap disciplines; and the SSAA guys might just keep driving past.

Btw everyone is pretty keen on changing but there seems to be no clear agreement to make this a reality...that might be the point (not my obviously outmoded views on what a bloody bipod should look like). Stick to what we do now and grow by promoting our point of difference (longer range).
Many people seem a bit thin-skinned for an open debate (like F1 drivers)!!

SunnyCoast 5r
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#96 Postby SunnyCoast 5r » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:02 pm

PS I'm done. Let me know when I am able to have another opinion. Peter W

DannyS
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#97 Postby DannyS » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:38 am

Hi Peter, we run a short range shoot usually on the last Saturday each month. Shot at 300 yards using either a 25m pistol target or feral animal target. SSAA are welcome to attend. On average, we get 1 SSAA member using a hunter class 308.

Our local SSAA club has about 4 members that attend their shoots regularly . Would be interesting to know numbers of SSAA attendees in other country areas.

Cheers
Danny

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#98 Postby DenisA » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:42 am

Hi Peter, I didn't mean to offend you.

Everybody's entitled to an opinion, that's what makes a good discussion.

Any topic needs to be looked at from all angles and you shouldn't be made to feel like "your done".

Apologies.

AlanF
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#99 Postby AlanF » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:19 am

SunnyCoast 5r wrote:...Surely most 223 / 308 hunting rifles could get on target @ 300m to 500y at least?..

Peter,

Thanks for having a say.

What you've said in this quote is actually one of the main problems, regardless of whether a new class is created. Most ranges shoot out to at least 600yards, some much further, on a regular basis. Also, a good number of ranges are restricted as to when they can hold shoots. Some are only able to shoot on Saturday between certain hours. On these longer ranges that are time restricted, it is difficult to provide for hunting rifles. You can only invite them when shooting the shorts. On our range that is about 40% of Saturdays, but fortunately we do have other times of the week available (e.g. Saturday morning).

Alan

dazza284
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#100 Postby dazza284 » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:41 am

Hmmmm i very much like this idea

Tod7.62
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#101 Postby Tod7.62 » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:06 am

Hi Peter,

I think the introduction of FTR B grade is a good idea and as you have said shouldn't take much to change the rules as it would not disadvantage current FTR shooters. It would put new FTR shooters with factory rifles and harris bi pods on a more level playing field.

Go the 5R!!!

Cheers Tod

Cameron Mc
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#102 Postby Cameron Mc » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:52 am

Surely there are enough classes now to meet the needs of the majority.

We cannot just keep adding classes at will.

If you want FTR "B" grade, then someone will want "C" grade :shock:

Remember at the end of the day we are not shooting for sheep stations. Also....there can be only one winner :?

Norm
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#103 Postby Norm » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 pm

I think this class of shooting will evolve over time due to the laws of supply and demand. Where there are opportunities for it to exist, it will thrive, where there are no opportunities it will be almost non-existent.

Within the NRAA itself there is very little demand for a new class or grade as most existing NRAA shooters are already set up with gear that is suitable for a particular class of competition. So I see the main push for this type of shooting coming from outside of the NRAA membership.

Within and outside of the SSAA there is a huge number of shooters and a solid demand for such a class of shooting. This has already resulted in a range of initiatives within the SSAA to address this demand.

This type of shooting is only going to get more popular as time goes on as more and more opportunities arise. The SSAA has sub groups that will organise the events and a lot of these will simply be held at suitable full bore ranges that can be rented for the day to hold the event.

This is a cash bonus for the full bore ranges that rent out their ranges, but it will do little to increase their membership numbers unless they are proactive in supporting the shooters between events.

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#104 Postby DenisA » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:20 pm

Norm wrote:
This is a cash bonus for the full bore ranges that rent out their ranges, but it will do little to increase their membership numbers unless they are proactive in supporting the shooters between events.


=D>

DenisA
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Re: F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

#105 Postby DenisA » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:54 pm

We had a GM this morning and I put my idea to the club. It went pretty much exactly as I expected it would and my motion to develop a system to encourage SSAA members to shoot with us on weekends was rejected by everyone present.

The "us and them" attitude was strong and voiced by one committee member in particular. That person highlighted their view that "they're not the sort of people we want in our club". Disgusting..


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