NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

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Barry Davies
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#16 Postby Barry Davies » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:28 pm

RDavies wrote:
Barry Davies wrote:
jasmay wrote:
Is there a state queens where numbers are growing?


All state Queens are generally in decline.

Maybe in overall numbers. Just curious though how numbers are going in each state for F class over the last few years?


Since 2014 numbers in F class in each state have remained almost the same. Numbers vary slightly each year up or down but when you look at the averages and compare 2014 with 2019 there are single number variations --some up some down.
In other words we are not going anywhere.
Since 2013 the averages are ---
Qld -- 71, NSW --61, Vic-- 70, SA-- 43, WA --49, ACT--82, NRAA --73. Did not do NQRA, TAS or NTRA
I discounted Queens where National teams were conducted as it would unnaturally inflate numbers.
Barry

sungazer
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#17 Postby sungazer » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:41 pm

That measure is a valid one, However it does have some bias. The people that attend the Queens on a regular basis are your dedicated loyal, committed members. That many people may still be going when the NRAA only has 100 members.

To look at participation and membership you have to look with a much broader scope.

Barry Davies
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#18 Postby Barry Davies » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:36 pm

You can screw the numbers however which way suits the agenda. The numbers I gave are actual attendances over 7 years and simply indicates that we are not increasing attendances at the most popular comps.
Generally you get better support from locals because not everyone can afford to travel interstate. It is interesting to note that the ACT have the highest numbers and have had for 6 of the last 7 years -- why? My guess is because it is the most central venue to 4 of the states. The Nationals had better numbers when it was in Canberra.
The Nationals have it's highest numbers from Qld and NSW with 56% from Qld and 26% from NSW , Vic is next with 5%. The reason is obvious.
Venue plays a very large part in determining the numbers in attendance.

bruce moulds
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#19 Postby bruce moulds » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:28 pm

Barry Davies wrote:
RDavies wrote:
Barry Davies wrote:
All state Queens are generally in decline.

Maybe in overall numbers. Just curious though how numbers are going in each state for F class over the last few years?


Since 2014 numbers in F class in each state have remained almost the same. Numbers vary slightly each year up or down but when you look at the averages and compare 2014 with 2019 there are single number variations --some up some down.
In other words we are not going anywhere.
Since 2013 the averages are ---
Qld -- 71, NSW --61, Vic-- 70, SA-- 43, WA --49, ACT--82, NRAA --73. Did not do NQRA, TAS or NTRA
I discounted Queens where National teams were conducted as it would unnaturally inflate numbers.
Barry


so what do fclass shooters want to buy?
what has the nraa done to find this out, and then sell it to members and potential new members.
they seem more interested in letting it go in favour of flirting with new disciplines like so called hunter class and things like prs.
professionally and correctly marketed, fclass and tr could be the glamour sports of shooting.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

jasmay
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#20 Postby jasmay » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:28 pm

bruce moulds wrote:what has the nraa done to find this out, and then sell it to members and potential new members.
they seem more interested in letting it go in favour of flirting with new disciplines like so called hunter class and things like prs.
professionally and correctly marketed, fclass and tr could be the glamour sports of shooting.
bruce.



While it is unaffordable for most it will never be “the glamour sport”

Thinking about and experimenting with new disciplines to find that entry level class is going to be crucial for the future.

We need sensible discussion on that and to stop bagging out the NRAA at every turn.

I see Rimfire F-Class is on the rise over seas... could be a very good breeding ground, especially for juniors.

bruce moulds
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#21 Postby bruce moulds » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:33 pm

jasmay,
we need to learn from our mistakes in order to not repeat them.
embracing new disciplines while avoiding the reality of the ones we have now is a mistake.
and then not promoting them will send them down the gurgler like not promoting the ones we have now seems to be doing.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

jasmay
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#22 Postby jasmay » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:38 pm

Bruce, what’s the reality?

RDavies
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#23 Postby RDavies » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:22 pm

While I would like "The NRAA Nationals" to be shared around a few suitable ranges, I know the NRAA wont let it move away from its own backyard with its nice facilities off the range. (Even if they have stuffed a great range by putting all those massive big vertical inducing mounds along it)

One thing which would be good however is if the Nationals could be run to be something like a true Nationals, not just the 2nd Brisbane Queens for the year. I understand that they want to shoot shorter ranges and shorter strings in regular Queens to give C and B graders a chance to get their zeroes and not be intimidated etc, but how about we have a format more suited to A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP just once a year?
I have been told this would be too elitist, so maybe we can have a separate C & B grade Nationals once a year where everyone gets a prize to keep the multitude happy, then have an A grade Nationals once a year.

The C & B grade Nationals could be similar to current format, ie play at 300 yds and other short ranges to get people started, string fire, short shot strings, ETs, no squadding, so everyone gets a chance to get lucky and get a range medal if they get an easy patch.

Then the A grade Nationals could maybe concentrate on longer ranges, nothing under 600yds, longer shot strings, maybe 15 shots string fire and 20 shots in pairs (Bisley style). Fully squaded, competitor marked if needed. I understand the less ambitious shooters wouldn't like this format, so they might be more comfortable in the current "Nationals".

If you made up a list of who are the top 15 or so F class shooters in each discipline, how often do we get more than half of them all together to shoot at one time? Hardly ever. There is nothing about the current "Nationals" which makes people want to travel to it over regular Queens. Nothing distinguishes it from other Queens events. For those who don't live in Brisbane, it is really just a second Brisbane Queens for the year.

What would be good is if we could just have one event a year which made all of the top shooters want to attend. The big one of the year which everyone from around the country looks forward to and the vast majority of the top shooters in each discipline turn up to at once.
Last edited by RDavies on Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

sungazer
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#24 Postby sungazer » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:32 pm

RDavies wrote: Nothing distinguishes it from other Queens events. For those who don't live in Brisbane, it is really just a second Brisbane Queens for the year.


This is also true in that there is no real qualifying for the event. That certainly may limit the numbers but there really is no more Status to that event than any other Queens.

As the geographic of the current shooters shows it is just too far and too expensive for your Mr average that has a family and is working. I know that is not the vast majority of the membership. But even for the grey ghosts it is a fair stretch.

Perhaps each year one of the State Queens could be named the Nationals if there is not going to be a qualifying requirement. One less Queens in Australia is not going to hurt.

jasmay
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#25 Postby jasmay » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:26 pm

Should “national championships” be A B & C grade?

What about 2 divisions, Long range and Short range championships.

Short 300-600

Long 800-1000

Shot at separate times of the year.

Quick
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Location: Yanchep, Western Australia
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#26 Postby Quick » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:18 am

Maybe we should look at what the yanks do?

Mid range nationals and long range Nats as Jason said? Imagine 3 days at 1000yds. It would make you wanna cry at times but be amazing fun.

I also think that we should do away with the leadup and queens seperation. If your top shooter over the 5 days, you win the lot. Not be the most consistent over five days but seen as less then the queens winner who only won 3 days. Consistancy is what matters in this game and we should reward it.

I think Rods idea has merit aswell.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

bruce moulds
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#27 Postby bruce moulds » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:17 am

jasmay wrote:Bruce, what’s the reality?


Jason,
I don't understand the question.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

jasmay
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#28 Postby jasmay » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:53 am

bruce moulds wrote:
jasmay wrote:Bruce, what’s the reality?


Jason,
I don't understand the question.
bruce.


You said embracing new disciplines without avoiding the reality of the ones we have now is a mistake.

Explain what the reality is please.

Quick
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#29 Postby Quick » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:10 am

Jas, I don't know if Bruce knows the reality....

Reality is that majority of new shooters want to shoot PRS style rifles and that's what they buy or build as its sexy, tactical, looks cool, whatever. If we don't cater to this, we will die as a sport/movement. I myself started this way as I got into the sport when I was 19yrs old. My first F-Class rifle was a tactical style Rem700, it would shoot 59s, but never the 60s.

The unfortunate fact is that what we do costs money. Like every other gear driven sport. Its still cheaper then racing cars, bikes, go karts, etc but it does cost. We do it because we love it and are addicted to shooting 60s as much as we can. Go price up a full Stolle or BAT build. that's our version of the sexy rifles and it costs a lot. I run a Stolle for F/TR, It shoots, but watch the horror when new shooters ask me how much it costs and then I tell them.

We can promote TR and F-Class all we want and its an international sport, fact is that it doesn't look exciting to outsiders, much unlike PRS style competition. Look how fast that has grown in the last few years here in Aus. They have already massively surpassed us in terms of sponsorship, and media coverage. If NRAA wants to grow our sport, we need to get PRS onto our ranges, and watch it grow.

Also look at SSAA, they have nearly 200000 members, we have maybe 6000. They are a very diversified body with many different shooting disciplines and quite a few of there comps are Olympic sanctioned competition. As awesome as the Comm Games are, they are NOT the Olympics and that gains more media coverage and government funding.

The reality is that unless we diversify our sport, we wont survive.

Maybe we need to goto SSAA and think about a merger. Its probably what is needed for the sport to survive and indeed thrive here in Australia. Look at the NRAA clubs that are also SSAA affiliated. The have grown a lot in recent times.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.

Tim N
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#30 Postby Tim N » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:34 am

jasmay wrote:Should “national championships” be A B & C grade?

What about 2 divisions, Long range and Short range championships.

Short 300-600

Long 800-1000

Shot at separate times of the year.


Sounds like a great idea
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC


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