Easter At Glenrowan

[RAVEN]

Adam
Lynn has expressed what would of said we need to think together as an F-Class group your reply is miss guided I shoot along side FS every weekend and appreciate the skill involved in that discipline starting flaming like that gets us no where!!!!!
Adam are u one of the Reps for FS to NRAA if so U need the be less defensive i mean this in a constructive way M8y
Cheers
RB

[Guest]

Bruce,


No mate, nothing to do with puberty, more to do with winning the lottery and then keeping up with the " jones ".

Matt,

I did not intend getting into the target debate again, but since you raised the question.
I agree an easier target would give such as yourself higher scores and the end result may or may not be the same, but it would also encourage the "have nots" to have a go as the field would be somewhat more level.
Consider the recent Vic Queens-- In FO you won with 770, the next best was 16 points behind, and so down the list they went to the bottom at 44 points behind you.
Now, those behind you have a considerable amount of work to do providing of course they stick with it.
Now, this may be an acceptable part of FO where , as a good mate of mine said " FO appears to be a search for ultra precision at any price"
I dont have a problem with that, but there seems to be little encouragement for Mr average to have a go, and thats why FS is so popular.
You ask the question " what does it achieve? " Well it may well achieve an increase in numbers in FO---If thats what you want.

Alan

You say you want greater numbers in FO but your not prepared to change anything to achieve this. That type of thinking I do not comprehend.

Lynn,

FO are alienated by virtue of the different target--Thats the way it is.
Personally I would like to see both disciplines shooting at the same target, but for this to become a reality there has to be compromise on both sides.
Now that the committees are in place, what is the problem in them confering to see if there is any common ground between FS & FO?

Barry Davies

[AlanF]

...You say you want greater numbers in FO but your not prepared to change anything to achieve this. That type of thinking I do not comprehend...

Sorry Barry - I'd better make it clearer then ...

I said "I wouldn't like to see us changing in either of those directions" (F-Std or benchrest). That doesn't mean I don't want changes to the way we promote our category, and the way we welcome and help new members. And it doesn't mean we shouldn't make some rule changes - after all I didn't volunteer for the rules subcommittee to do nothing! What I meant was I don't want us change the character of F-Open by for example going back to full-bore targets, or by allowing benches, just to attract a few more members.

Alan

[Lynn Otto]

Barry

I made the attempt to inject a little diplomacy into this thread and to put it back on track out of respect for you and the original purpose of the posting but you seem determined to derail it yourself as Alan has already observed.

So lets talk a little philosphy. Alienation, like racism and other forms of stereotyping can only exists where someone is bigoted enough to insist that it exists and gives it a name. This alienation of FO that you speak of does not exist here, we are all good friends or at least respected fellow shooters. This is the first consideration, it is only secondary that we may consider what the person is shooting with. I am deeply saddened for you that this is not the case in your state, you are being deprived of wonderful comradery by considering your FO shooters as being "alienated", just because they use a different target and that they are somehow different from yourselves.

For all that some may think SA is a little radical, and I suspect a few other things as well, I won't trade with you. Like I said, we are all F Class shooters here.

I also would like to see both shooting on the same target, which we were until other people deprived us of the ability to by removing a choice that was doing them no harm but which the loss of has done us serious harm, I believe it is called selfish self-interest. As to your ideas on targets, this is not a point we will agree on so it is best left alone. However I will make the observation that setting the difficulty of an event (in any sport) to cater to the lowest common denominator is never good for the sport or the competitors. If you don't aim your sights and expectations a little higher than the mediocre, you will only ever get mediocre, if you do not challenge yourself, you will never improve. I know you will argue this point, but anyone who has done any psychology, be it sports or other, will tell you this. The target is not so difficult as to be daunting, unless of course you are not prepared to even try it. Comfort zones are dangerous things including to ones self esteem, they make people complacent.

Lynn

[bruce moulds]

hi,
i believe that some s.oz. open, & possibly std, shooters would possibly consider an easter trip to kelly country if we had a day to get there & a day to get home in time for work on tues.
maybe something to considere for next yr.
between the mexicans & us, & possibly a few nsw people, open could be a goer at glenrowan. let's keep in touch.
bruce.

[AlanF]

Way to go Bruce!

Get the Braund Bros to hi-jack that bus again and all come over together!

Alan

[Lynn Otto]

Yes, being Easter, we also considered coming over, unfortunately Barry has already said they are not catering to Open.

Lynn

[Guest]

Raven

It appears, going by lynn's and your own response that i may have indeed read your post incorrectly, if so i acknowledge my mistake and therefore apologize.

Regards

Adam Davies.

[Guest]

Lynn,

Don't be deterred, bring your standard rifle and come, I guarantee a good weekend.

You may then expound the virtues of FO to the Wang people who may reconsider their position for next year.

I put my future on the line and changed their mind about not including a FS Bgrade how about doing your bit for FO? If you cannot make it, then some form of correspondence to the wang people saying you would support FO if they put it on. How about it?

Barry

[Matt P]

Barry and Adam
Just out of intrest if cost wasn't a factor would you shoot open and if not why??

Matt P

[VickiMcc]

Why is cost a factor. You already have a scope, action, stock and a rest of some sort. Barrels cost the same and so does fitting, so that leaves only cases, bullets (only a small increase) and dies. Powder and primers cost the same. Not much of an outlay really.
Perhaps someone who shoots Std can explain this to me

P

[Tony Z]

edited 19/4/06

[Guest]

Hi Matt,
Can't speak for Adam. but as for me, Cost IS a factor. As I said in another thread--You have to keep up with the Jones.

All of our rifles are 308win. so to shoot FO we would have to select calibres compatable with the 308 bolt head system. The best of these appears to be the 6.5/284 which is rather severe on barrels. If we go to a 6mm it means another rifle.
I have a brand new 6.5 kreiger in my cupboard and its been sitting there since NOV last year-I'm not prepared to chamber it as I honestly don't know which way to go. If I go 284 then I really need another calibre for the shorts to preserve the 284. If I go say 260 rem then I feel that I would not be competitive ( with the 284)
I'm not overly rich as I have Jenny's rifles to maintain as well. As you know we travel about a good deal--shooting of course. I could not justify setting up other calibres when I have perfectly good accurate 308's which serve me very well. If I was just starting out I would probably shoot FO.

In answer to your question, If cost was not a factor I would shoot FO.

I believe this is the way many FS people think-- they have the rifle ,all they need to do is fit a scope ( not an expensive one either ) stick a rest of some sort under it and away they go, for a minimum of expense. This is what makes FS so attractive. The other thing that makes FS so attractive is the fact that even new shooters can get reasonable scores almost immediately. Now I know this does not go down well with some FO shooters. It really doesn't matter because this is what FS shooters want and this is what is boosting the numbers in FS.
Possibles are still difficult to get and there are very few shoot off's.

I appologise for the protracted answer but it comes down to more than cost. Contrary to the beliefs of some, it is not all "oldies" that shoot FS, There are persons within our sport who would have never made it shooting FB. and If it wasn't for FS they would be doing something else ( not shooting ) These persons suddenly "Found " that there was something they could be reasonably good at, and with the advent of FS Bgrade they even have a win occassionally.

FS is a blessing in disguise for the FB shooting movement and fortunately the powers that be have finally woken up to it.

Again I apologise for the long reply but it may help you to understand why I put a lot of effort into promoting FS,

Barry Davies

[Lynn Otto]

Barry

Firstly, we haven't finished load development on my new 223 yet, between work committments and illness, there's been no time.

Secondly, there would be no point, Trev and Mick both shoot open, it wouldn't be worth coming for just me to shoot.

However, we discussed it today at our DRA Teams shoot and there are a number of people here interested in the shoot, largely open shooters, so PM / email me the address and I will sort something out at this end.

Matt / Tony Z

Guys I am currently doing just fine with a very nice 6BR, which like Tony's photos you could not differentiate from my 223, the only visual difference is that one sports a Leupold and the other a Nightforce. But I am a Std shooter by preference, not because of cost, for me it's more to do with the challenge, I have to read the conditions that much better to equal the scores being shot by the open guys, there's satisfaction in that. I don't think that unless you are a Std shooter by preference that you can understand the attraction that it holds. Not sure how else to explain the mindset that makes Std the right choice for an individual, we have a number of people who spend just as much on their Std rifles but would never consider shooting Open.

Enough woffle
Lynn

ps even with the 223 I would still rather shoot on the championship target though, even more challenge. LOL

[Tony Q]

Hi Lynn

As we said yesterday, the Easter shoot sounds like a great idea for several of us SA FS and FO shooters to go collectively, just on our table we had 10 raised hands to go. It’s not that far and with 2 days spare for travel work issues are not in the equation.

At some stage we have to try to show how serious we F Classers are, while travel is a problem for many collectively we could help stem this problem by sharing rides etc.

Makes a lot of sense to pick a shoot like this one and turn up in force from around the country. If we do this it would only be fair to advise the organizers of the possible numbers.

We should raise this in Tuesday nights meeting to see how we could make it possible.

See you then.