Vic Queens --FStd B Grade Queens
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Vic Queens --FStd B Grade Queens
As this will be the inaugural FS B grade Queens, to help kick it off, I have arranged for Everlite Travel Goods P/L to supply a rifle case, with a value approaching $400, as the trophy for the FS B grade Queens aggregate. I'm looking forward to the support of the B Graders for this event.
Barry Davies will be helping with the grading ---- Over to you Barry, what info do you need from people?
John
Barry Davies will be helping with the grading ---- Over to you Barry, what info do you need from people?
John
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Nice gesture with the trophy donation John.
I must say that despite initially not being a big fan of the grading, it is being accepted by most Vic F-Std shooters, and particularly for big events like the Queens I'm sure it will work well.
One of my reservations was that B-graders are denied the opportunity of having a crack at the elite. But in reality they aren't, because its quite easy to compare scores with anyone in either grade.
Alan
I must say that despite initially not being a big fan of the grading, it is being accepted by most Vic F-Std shooters, and particularly for big events like the Queens I'm sure it will work well.
One of my reservations was that B-graders are denied the opportunity of having a crack at the elite. But in reality they aren't, because its quite easy to compare scores with anyone in either grade.
Alan
Last edited by AlanF on Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well done John. Pity there were not more like you.
For those who do not know, John Eland IS Everlite travel goods, so the money is coming out of his pocket.
What I need to assist with grading is the last 6 or preferably 8 PM scores, or in the absence of PM scores I will accept club scores verified by the club captain.
These can be sent to me via this forum in a private message alternatively send to Robbie at the VRA.
I will advise you by return your grading, also I will advise the VRA.
SO, c'mon all you "B" graders who have not shot a Queens, This is your opportunity.
Again John, Thanks mate. As the late/great Jim Reilly would say, " your bloods worth bottling "
Barry
For those who do not know, John Eland IS Everlite travel goods, so the money is coming out of his pocket.
What I need to assist with grading is the last 6 or preferably 8 PM scores, or in the absence of PM scores I will accept club scores verified by the club captain.
These can be sent to me via this forum in a private message alternatively send to Robbie at the VRA.
I will advise you by return your grading, also I will advise the VRA.
SO, c'mon all you "B" graders who have not shot a Queens, This is your opportunity.
Again John, Thanks mate. As the late/great Jim Reilly would say, " your bloods worth bottling "
Barry
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Yes Barry, the handicapping process needs some transparency. You've just given us a few pointers about how you would deal with new F-Std shooters from other classes. Why not open up the whole process so that there are no surprises. Otherwise you might find more and more shooters asking awkward questions about lack of consistancy.
Alan
Alan
Alan, What is this lack of consistancy you talk about? You have made an assumption that it exists already, and it's not ' handicapping " it's grading.
Vic shooters who are on the grading list will be graded accordingly as they have been over a considerable time at various PM's around Vic.
That system has been in place for a couple of years on trial by the VRA and does include some interstaters who come into Vic.
As far as interstaters who intend coming to Bendigo in March, they have been asked to supply scores as mentioned.
If no scores are produced then we would have no alternative but to grade them 'A "
A Grade FB shooters " coming over " would be graded " A" on the assumption that they must be somewhat reasonably proficient in both wind reading and technique.
Obviously we cannot use the same system for unknown interstaters as we use for the trial in Vic so having had a look at many scores both from Vic and interstate and comparing with actual results an average of 91% appears to be a reasonable cut off point.
91% = 109/120,
115/126 Rounded
164/180
or about 55/60
Of course the whole things a bit of a guess as any new system is but you have to start somewhere.
If and when the NRAA accept the need for grading in FS then they are going to have to come up with something, they may accept the system we have been trialing or they may not- that's their decision.
Grading HAS proven popular in Vic and the decision by the VRA to include at Bendigo was a far sighted one contrary to what some believe.
Lets not knock it. It wont be perfect but at least we in Vic have done something about giving the shooter a fair go, and they appreciate it, just ask some of them.
Anyone aggrieved with their grading can ask for a review, as always.
Anyone graded " B " who considers that below their dignity can opt to shoot "A" --don't see that as a problem.
Look at it this way. If we did not have grading EVERYBODY would be shooting "A" grade. We are simply trying to even up the field a bit and that cannot be all that bad, and yes we won"t get it 100% correct and yes no doubt someone will make a point of telling us.
Barry
Vic shooters who are on the grading list will be graded accordingly as they have been over a considerable time at various PM's around Vic.
That system has been in place for a couple of years on trial by the VRA and does include some interstaters who come into Vic.
As far as interstaters who intend coming to Bendigo in March, they have been asked to supply scores as mentioned.
If no scores are produced then we would have no alternative but to grade them 'A "
A Grade FB shooters " coming over " would be graded " A" on the assumption that they must be somewhat reasonably proficient in both wind reading and technique.
Obviously we cannot use the same system for unknown interstaters as we use for the trial in Vic so having had a look at many scores both from Vic and interstate and comparing with actual results an average of 91% appears to be a reasonable cut off point.
91% = 109/120,
115/126 Rounded
164/180
or about 55/60
Of course the whole things a bit of a guess as any new system is but you have to start somewhere.
If and when the NRAA accept the need for grading in FS then they are going to have to come up with something, they may accept the system we have been trialing or they may not- that's their decision.
Grading HAS proven popular in Vic and the decision by the VRA to include at Bendigo was a far sighted one contrary to what some believe.
Lets not knock it. It wont be perfect but at least we in Vic have done something about giving the shooter a fair go, and they appreciate it, just ask some of them.
Anyone aggrieved with their grading can ask for a review, as always.
Anyone graded " B " who considers that below their dignity can opt to shoot "A" --don't see that as a problem.
Look at it this way. If we did not have grading EVERYBODY would be shooting "A" grade. We are simply trying to even up the field a bit and that cannot be all that bad, and yes we won"t get it 100% correct and yes no doubt someone will make a point of telling us.
Barry
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Barry,
If it is adopted by the NRA, I believe they would want simpler and more clearly defined rules for determining grades. For example if someone graded B can opt to be upgraded to A, what it is to stop all B-graders from doing so?
In the meantime, for the current trial, if the shooters are happy I guess that's what matters.
Alan
If it is adopted by the NRA, I believe they would want simpler and more clearly defined rules for determining grades. For example if someone graded B can opt to be upgraded to A, what it is to stop all B-graders from doing so?
In the meantime, for the current trial, if the shooters are happy I guess that's what matters.
Alan
Alan,
What's the problem with someone upgrading if they so desire?
Some people consider there is a stigma attached to being graded anything but " A ".
Who cares if they upgrade? Goes on all the time in TR and have'nt heard anyone bitch about it. The system currently being used in Vic to determine grading IS simple and clearly defined, so simple and effective that it leaves the TR system way behind.
I would hope that the NRAA would adopt this system for both FS and TR.
Alan, you know what. The only people who seem to have a problem with the way FS is run in Vic are FO shooters. What's your problem?
And you'r correct , as long as the shooters are happy that's all that matters.
Maybe if you FO people worried more about where your discipline is going and less about what FS is doing you might also one day have sufficient numbers to introduce grading.
Barry
What's the problem with someone upgrading if they so desire?
Some people consider there is a stigma attached to being graded anything but " A ".
Who cares if they upgrade? Goes on all the time in TR and have'nt heard anyone bitch about it. The system currently being used in Vic to determine grading IS simple and clearly defined, so simple and effective that it leaves the TR system way behind.
I would hope that the NRAA would adopt this system for both FS and TR.
Alan, you know what. The only people who seem to have a problem with the way FS is run in Vic are FO shooters. What's your problem?
And you'r correct , as long as the shooters are happy that's all that matters.
Maybe if you FO people worried more about where your discipline is going and less about what FS is doing you might also one day have sufficient numbers to introduce grading.
Barry
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Alan,
I believe Barry's system is perfectly simple and straightforward, because it is based on a shooter's current form. As this will be the inaugural FSB event, there will probably be some hiccups, but I expect the rule of common sense to apply in those cases and we will just have to show some patience and understanding while any anomalies are ironed out.
As the current full bore grading system stands, a shooter may enter in a higher grade if he so wishes, and that has always been a bugbear of mine --- I strongly believe that you should have to shoot in the grade as shown on your grading card, and club graders should ensure that grade is correct and up to date at all times. "C Grade" is always a flop at Prize Meetings because a number of C graders choose to compete in B Grade, and the same people languish at the bottom of B Grade, while the C Grade event is meaningless because of a lack of competitors -- what is the point of winning if you are the only competitor in the competition?
From what I have seen at recent Prize Meetings, FSB has been well accepted and has worked well under Barry's grading system, which I think he has fine tuned as has been necessary.
Under any system there will always be the chance of someone having a day out, and shooting a big score, and no-one would have a problem with that. My main concern would be to see that only true B Graders compete in B Grade.
One other thing --- unless NRAA puts out the new SSRs before March, the current Rules still apply in regards to rifle weights and trigger weights etc, and I am aware of several people who have jumped the gun( so to speak ), in anticipation of changes in these areas. It may be that they will have to make some adjustments if they intend to shoot the Vic Queens, or risk disqualification. In fact the NRAA may not see fit to change the Rules in those areas at all.
John
I believe Barry's system is perfectly simple and straightforward, because it is based on a shooter's current form. As this will be the inaugural FSB event, there will probably be some hiccups, but I expect the rule of common sense to apply in those cases and we will just have to show some patience and understanding while any anomalies are ironed out.
As the current full bore grading system stands, a shooter may enter in a higher grade if he so wishes, and that has always been a bugbear of mine --- I strongly believe that you should have to shoot in the grade as shown on your grading card, and club graders should ensure that grade is correct and up to date at all times. "C Grade" is always a flop at Prize Meetings because a number of C graders choose to compete in B Grade, and the same people languish at the bottom of B Grade, while the C Grade event is meaningless because of a lack of competitors -- what is the point of winning if you are the only competitor in the competition?
From what I have seen at recent Prize Meetings, FSB has been well accepted and has worked well under Barry's grading system, which I think he has fine tuned as has been necessary.
Under any system there will always be the chance of someone having a day out, and shooting a big score, and no-one would have a problem with that. My main concern would be to see that only true B Graders compete in B Grade.
One other thing --- unless NRAA puts out the new SSRs before March, the current Rules still apply in regards to rifle weights and trigger weights etc, and I am aware of several people who have jumped the gun( so to speak ), in anticipation of changes in these areas. It may be that they will have to make some adjustments if they intend to shoot the Vic Queens, or risk disqualification. In fact the NRAA may not see fit to change the Rules in those areas at all.
John
Last edited by John E on Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Barry,
My main concern is that now that it has got to the Queens level (i.e. the top level of competition for F-Std), it shouldn't be all based on a little black book which isn't available for the competitors to see. I'm pleased to see that you are explaining some of the guidelines used.
Not trying to upset you. I think its ok. I hope to be shooting F-Std myself in the leadup.
BTW F-Open is doing okay thanks - we're not out of the woods, but I believe its starting to turn the corner .
Alan
My main concern is that now that it has got to the Queens level (i.e. the top level of competition for F-Std), it shouldn't be all based on a little black book which isn't available for the competitors to see. I'm pleased to see that you are explaining some of the guidelines used.
Not trying to upset you. I think its ok. I hope to be shooting F-Std myself in the leadup.
BTW F-Open is doing okay thanks - we're not out of the woods, but I believe its starting to turn the corner .
Alan
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John,
To be honest, I'd be shooting Open in both Leadup and Queens if the new barrels/reamers/dies had arrived - I only have few accuracy shoots left in the current 6.5 barrels, and would rather save them for the Queens.
The bonus is, I'm looking forward to shooting the .308 in the leadup - should be a good way of learning more about those deceptive wind flags at Belmont. And it might be an opportunity to talk some sense into a few F-Std shooters and lure them across to F-Open !
Alan
To be honest, I'd be shooting Open in both Leadup and Queens if the new barrels/reamers/dies had arrived - I only have few accuracy shoots left in the current 6.5 barrels, and would rather save them for the Queens.
The bonus is, I'm looking forward to shooting the .308 in the leadup - should be a good way of learning more about those deceptive wind flags at Belmont. And it might be an opportunity to talk some sense into a few F-Std shooters and lure them across to F-Open !
Alan
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