Sierra or Berger

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scott/r
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Sierra or Berger

#1 Postby scott/r » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:30 pm

Ok, sometimes I'm a little late to parties, but can someone tell me why everyone says the 155.5 bergers are the go to projectile compared to the 2156 155 sierra match king. On paper, and on the desk, the Sierra looks the better bullet. They come pre pointed, their weights and lengths (base to ogive) have smaller margins while sorting. Is it that the bergers actually fly better or is it that everyone is still stuck on the old 2155 sierras that weren't quite up to it.
Scott.

macguru
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:49 am

Re: Sierra or Berger

#2 Postby macguru » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:04 pm

Yeah, sierra makes most of their projectiles on multiple machines resulting in variable base to ogive measurements and then they have the arrogance to dump them in the same box so when you load them the results vary !!!

Berger, not so much :)

Andrew
id quod est

scott/r
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:22 pm
Location: far north brisbane

Re: Sierra or Berger

#3 Postby scott/r » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:50 pm

macguru wrote:Yeah, sierra makes most of their projectiles on multiple machines resulting in variable base to ogive measurements and then they have the arrogance to dump them in the same box so when you load them the results vary !!!

Berger, not so much :)

Andrew


Berger do the same thing with their new plant. And as I said before, I've actually found that the sierras have smaller variance per box of 500.
Scott.

Barry Davies
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: Sierra or Berger

#4 Postby Barry Davies » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:28 am

My finding is less variation per box and less variation batch to batch with Sierra than Berger. Not to say one is better than the other, just less time spent retuning with Sierra. And that applies to both the 2155 and 2156. I happily use both.

argh
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Location: Sydney

Re: Sierra or Berger

#5 Postby argh » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:26 pm

I have found 2156 normally have 2 or 3 distinct "batches" in a 500 box which means you have to sort them. Measured a few boxes of berger 155.5 and they didnt have that problem. I dont sort bergers anymore as the differences were too small

I'll throw another option in there for you. Several of the top f std shooters in our club have moved to VLD's in the last few years with really good results.

I dont think it's only an option of berger fullbore, sierra or HBC. Other options that are working are worth looking at

scott/r
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:22 pm
Location: far north brisbane

Re: Sierra or Berger

#6 Postby scott/r » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:41 pm

Argh, personally, the main reason I switched from bergers to sierras was the bergers had big variances in base to ogive. The last box of 500 had .008" . And the first box of sierras had .002 . Out of the 3 x 500 box of 2156 I've used, the worst I've found is .004" .
But, like you said, there is plenty of options.

AlanF
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Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: Sierra or Berger

#7 Postby AlanF » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:04 pm

Talking to a F/TR shooter at our OPM on the weekend, he found about 0.040" spread with 185 Jugs. Reports that the new Berger factory mixes the output from multiple machines sadly seem to be true.

Barry Davies
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Re: Sierra or Berger

#8 Postby Barry Davies » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:11 pm

I have a couple of batches of Berger 155.5's with .053" ( yep 53 thou ) difference in Base to ogive. Do they shoot the same ?( all other things being equal ) no, they do not.
Worst I've had in 2156 Sierra's is .015" batch to batch, with in box variation a couple of thou.

wsftr
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: Sierra or Berger

#9 Postby wsftr » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:05 am

Barry Davies wrote:I have a couple of batches of Berger 155.5's with .053" ( yep 53 thou ) difference in Base to ogive. Do they shoot the same ?( all other things being equal ) no, they do not.
Worst I've had in 2156 Sierra's is .015" batch to batch, with in box variation a couple of thou.


when you state batches do you mean lot# to lot#?

For as long as I am aware of Berger have had a large variation lot# to lot# and they have stated this as the dies wear to a point then they are replaced. Pressure ring is another area that can change significantly lot# to lot#. However within a given lot# I have found Berger hold tight tolerances.

For instance 105 Hybrids have had over .040" variation in the bearing surface lot# to Lot# and up to .009" variation in the pressure ring (caused some issues with chamber dimensions) and this was looong before they were bought out.

Are you stating/finding that now within a given lot# for Bergers there are large variances?

Barry Davies
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: Sierra or Berger

#10 Postby Barry Davies » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:22 am

Yes, Lot # to Lot#.
Within a Lot# about 5 thou Base to ogive with the same variation for length of parallel. That's probably acceptable and
in itself does not cause problems, as with the correct measuring gauges you can batch them. The big problem is when you get large variations from Lot to Lot -- like I said up to 50 thou, then it becomes a retune job -and I am referring to FC here not TR - probably get away with it in TR ( well, some TR shooters would see the difference, most would not. )
I can appreciate where these variations stem from -- new dies, die wear, speed of machines, lubrication etc but it's a pain when you have to retune several times over the life of a barrel.
I guess one way out of it is to purchase sufficient rounds of the same lot# to see out a barrel --gets a bit expensive though to have to fork out for 3000 or so rounds in one hit on top of a new barrel.
Personally it does not concern me greatly as I gauge every projectile and batch them anyway, but not everybody has the facility to do this and most could not be bothered anyway.
Depends upon what one wants out of this sport.

wsftr
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: Sierra or Berger

#11 Postby wsftr » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:01 pm

ta - yeah I have hit large lot# to lot# variations too and had to rework loads. I'm surprised that wouldn't be seen with other manufacturers bullets as I can't see how they would change dies that frequently.
Yeah I buy a barrels worth once I know it will shoot in that barrel. Mitigates the OMG I can't get anymore too...usually the couple of hundred left over at the end of a barrels life get sold to those panicking just before nationals and need some boolets ;)

GlennA
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:54 pm
Location: Nth Balgowlah, NSW

Re: Sierra or Berger

#12 Postby GlennA » Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:39 pm

I’m aware this is an old post but I’m a new fclass std shooter and I'm trying to learn. I’m getting 0.010” variation in my Sierra 2156 projectiles and I’m trying to work out when you sort them in batches to shoot how much variation do you have in a batch.?? Is it + or - 0.001 or 0.002??
There’s a reason for everything!


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