Best binoculars for scoring? (Edit: Now Scope)

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UL1700
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Best binoculars for scoring? (Edit: Now Scope)

#1 Postby UL1700 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:15 am

As we will be at the Queens for the 1st time and regularly do a few OPMs on manual targets, we are looking for recommendations for suitable binoculars for scoring out to 1000 yards. Planning to go with binoculars as they will likely get more use beyond the range then a spotting scope.

Cheers,

James.
Last edited by UL1700 on Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

bruce moulds
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#2 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:36 am

kowa high lander.
bruce.
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UL1700
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#3 Postby UL1700 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:49 pm

bruce moulds wrote:kowa high lander.
bruce.


OK "best" might have been a poor descriptor :shock: less bulky and significantly cheaper would be good as only going to be used a few times per year!

James

bruce moulds
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#4 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:52 pm

james,
sorry for doing that, but I could not resist.
a warped sense of humour.
they would be excellent for scoring though.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

scott/r
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#5 Postby scott/r » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:08 pm

James, I've got a set of 10 x Bresser that i use at prize shoots. But, only at short ranges. They are top notch binoculars, but when it comes to seeing the difference between a center and a super center at much past 800, especially if you have a value challenge, you can't go past a spotting scope. I beleive, an average quality spotter with a cheap tri-pod will do you a lot better than a good pair of bi-nos. And the money you save will pay for another entry fee to said Queen's.

Longranger
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#6 Postby Longranger » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:45 pm

Canon image stabilizing 15x ones are awesome.

lonerider43
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#7 Postby lonerider43 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:02 pm

i use pentax 12x50
very good binos,but i do have trouble seeing the spotter [sometimes] in heavy mirage.
i wouldnt go smaller than that though.15x or better for sure.
Australian's Against "Gun-A-Phobia"

BillB
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#8 Postby BillB » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:19 am

If you get caughtout i can lend you a spotting scope and stand im not shooting
Im on site 13 a red triton Bill

pjifl
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#9 Postby pjifl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:06 am

Binoculars, although convenient, are really not up to the job although image stabilized go close.

A good tripod or other rigid mounting system is just as important or even more important that the quality of a spotting scope.

It is not fair on shooters to have scorers and check scorers using substandard gear.

Peter Smith.

AlanF
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#10 Postby AlanF » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:50 am

This question raises an issue that I have given some thought to in the past. In what situation does a scorer need excellent optics? The situation requiring the best optics would be if the spotter position appears inconsistent with the score indicator. Unless the scorer is very sure about an inconsistency, I think its wrong to query it, because the delay caused by the butts call process can upset the shooter's rhythm, and cause loss of points. If the scorer query is wrong, then it can be very unfair. The relevant rule (4.1.3.6) specifies "telescope or binoculars". I don't think there is a need for anything more than binoculars - why should some shooters be subject to more scrutiny than others when there is a close call. Better to leave the shooter alone unless there is a clear mistake by the marker, and 7X to 10X binoculars will be good enough to see that. Telescopes have advantages for ease of use, so are a good idea from that point of view, but I don't think scorers should feel obliged to use them in preference to binoculars.

One gripe I have is that occasionally you see check scorers without either telescope or binoculars [-X . Effectively they are just agreeing with the scorer rather than checking.

pjifl
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#11 Postby pjifl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:05 pm

My previous statement that It is not fair on shooters to have scorers and check scorers using substandard gear. was meant to imply that the shooter can gain from a good scorer as well as suffer.

I agree that unnecessary delays imposed on a shooters can be very unfair, but a good scorer, who has good optics and is on the ball may help the shooter.
A scorer may call for a higher score as well as a lower score and if he is really on the ball and sees a bullet trace towards a wrong target can often help facilitate a much shorter delay. This applies also to eTargets scoring as well. It is much harder to pick up a bullet trajectory through Binoculars that a steadily held spotting scope.

It seems to me that the quality of scoring has dramatically fallen and it is something that should be addressed.

Peter Smith.

ben_g
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#12 Postby ben_g » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:08 pm

I think a spotting scope set on the target is far superior to binos.

Was shooting in Sydney last year and my scorer couldn’t see spotter or value disc through the misty rain. And then when the score was eventually called out is was often wrong. Was slow and causing much confusion.

UL1700
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#13 Postby UL1700 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:21 pm

BillB wrote:If you get caughtout i can lend you a spotting scope and stand im not shooting
Im on site 13 a red triton Bill


That is a very generous offer that I may well take you up on. Work commitments between now and then make getting anywhere to have a look difficult and buying optics online seems fraught with difficulty. If there had been a clear consensus around a particular product I would have taken the gamble. It also sounds like a spotting scope may be the way forward but there is still the difficulty of looking through some.

pjifl wrote:
It seems to me that the quality of scoring has dramatically fallen and it is something that should be addressed.

Peter Smith.


Unfortunately for those of us who are just starting out and who spend much of our time on electronic targets (both my closest ranges run e targets) the opportunity to score on manual targets is often reduced to competition situations. It also makes spending significant amounts of money on optics that will only be occasionally be used that much harder especially at the same time as getting started. I started and then my wife followed which means in the last 18 months we have built both an F Open rifle and an F tr with all the associated equipment which as you will be aware doesn't come cheap especially if you are doing it "properly". That said we are keen to learn and develop so we do what we can and scoring manual targets is a very educational experience.

williada
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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#14 Postby williada » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:24 pm

James, there must be good spotting scopes available from older tr sources. It would not be a bad investment if you integrate its use on the mound with scope shooting because that is where the FO is heading to get an edge. Should you be given the opportunity to coach in team shooting you would see the benefits of a greater field of view in a spotting scope that a telescopic sight denies. I am working on developing new skills on reading the direction of hail having experienced Lang Lang on Saturday! :D All jokes aside, it can be used to pick up feint mirage on cold days or be positioned on a key flag. If targets are manually marked, the shot trend on other targets can be monitored. You can get a stand or make one that allows the scope to be adjusted for eye level on the ground or when standing up. They are indispensable bits of kit to observe conditions before you shoot to observe where conditions hold and the rhythm of movements. I have observed your groups and you would slot very neatly as would your spouse into team shooting at a higher level than club level. Further success would come with the ability to read conditions and a spotting scope is part of the armory to achieve that.

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Re: Best binoculars for scoring?

#15 Postby pjifl » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:33 pm

Yes - Mirage reading skills flow from watching people shoot with a spotting scope whether you shoot scope or TR.

There is no need for an exquisite scope worth a fortune. Many of the really nice spotting scopes these days are shorter and have ED glass and the price tends to correlate with this. Much of the cost has been recently about reducing the length of the scope yet keeping performance high. It is a trend in an affluent society. Older scopes that are much longer can be excellent. Especially if one invests in better eyepieces. There are many Chinese or other Asian spotting scopes these days that would fit the bill but as with all optics there is also a lot of crap around and it is hard to determine what is being offered.

UL1700 - I do understand your dilemma and you are correct in not rushing to buy any spotting scope that offers. I am sure there will be many people willing to lend you a good scoring scope. And take heart in that quality marking is more about attitude and dedication to the task than having exquisite optics. But be warned - Quality Optics can be addictive........ Also consider that the scope mount or tripod is almost as important as the scope.

Peter Smith.


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