Oversized windage dial

[pjifl]

Knowing what windage is set on the scope is always worthwhile and in a 2 target team shoot how else can one coordinate the two coaches and use each other's expertise. The large coaching knob was designed with this in mind. It also allows one to estimate Aerodynamic Jump.

Nightforce BR scopes have the original knobs attached by more than one grub screw. As mentioned the Comp only has 1. It is imperative that this is done up quite tight before the large knob is fitted. Use of a snug fitting collar intermediate between the scope knob and big knob does distribute the load somewhat and it is best if the squeeze points are reasonably aligned.

I have done knobs which attach directly onto the knob shaft but shooters do not like this. Typical shooters seem to object to all sorts of sensible schemes. Like I just machine the knobble off of my original knobs so a simple sleeve works best. Actually, I have done away with grub screws and replaced then with a simple Phillips Head screw. The number of times I have seen people panic on the mound and scrabble looking for for an Allen key made me think. Screwdrivers are more likely to be on hand and less likely to get lost. There is another reason I will not mention here.

I can never figure out shooters. They are attracted to fine useless confusing graduations on a knob. They spend enormous dollars on pretty gear they see on web sites in the US and forget about performance !!!!!!!!!!

I might get up an article on the development of the FO Coaching Knob. There is a lot more to it that one gleans at first sight.

Peter Smith.

[bruce moulds]

tim,
watching the wind all the time is fraught with danger.
the reason being that subtle or slow changes can easily not be noticed as they happen.
the only wind you need to know about is that when you fire the shot.
mental snapshots offer a far greater ease of noticing a change, than watching all the time.
kind of like a strobe compared to a movie.
doing what you suggest makes it easy to get lost, then where do you go?
you can lose your rythum trying to get started again on not much more than a guess.
it is all about aggs and not the odd blinder.
you can know what is on the sight at any time if you train your mind.
bruce.

[Matt P]

Bruce
Like these ??
Matt P

Scope knobs1.jpg

Scope knobs2.jpg

[BATattack]

Very nice!!

[bruce moulds]

matt,
not bad for a young bloke.
obviously designed by a cunning operator
bruce.

[cheech]

Bruce
Like these ??
Matt P
Scope knobs1.jpg
Scope knobs2.jpg

Yep this bloke is where it’s at

[Tim L]

tim,
watching the wind all the time is fraught with danger.
the reason being that subtle or slow changes can easily not be noticed as they happen.
the only wind you need to know about is that when you fire the shot.
mental snapshots offer a far greater ease of noticing a change, than watching all the time.
kind of like a strobe compared to a movie.
doing what you suggest makes it easy to get lost, then where do you go?
you can lose your rythum trying to get started again on not much more than a guess.
it is all about aggs and not the odd blinder.
you can know what is on the sight at any time if you train your mind.
bruce.

You miss my point Bruce. You support your argument with a specific condition, which, i would argue is just a condition that needs a technique. A condition that changes that slowly is, as far as I'm concernd, is a chase the spotter situation. If you can't see it you can't do much about it. You shoot, you see no change (so hopefully less than half a minute) so shoot again. Hit a right 6 so go half left and shoot again
The art is
Knowing what technique to use when. This leads on to:
Having that technique.
Being set up to use that technique.
Not being restricted to having to employ the incorrect technique.

Peter makes the statement above "knowing what windage is set on the scope is always worthwhile " and then adds a caveat of 2 coach shooting.
A more accurate statement is " Being able to see what windage is on is always worthwhile" Actually knowing is not, not ALWAYS. It can be a waste of mental effort when that effort is needed elsewhere ie. It's not always necessary to know, but it is always useful to be able to find out quickly.
I've been coached by many very good coaches. I'm pretty sure Jim Blomfield does not keep track of what is on. He finds the middle and follows it, he rarely looks at the knob once running.

[Pommy Chris]

Knowing what windage is set on the scope is always worthwhile and in a 2 target team shoot how else can one coordinate the two coaches and use each other's expertise. The large coaching knob was designed with this in mind. It also allows one to estimate Aerodynamic Jump.

Nightforce BR scopes have the original knobs attached by more than one grub screw. As mentioned the Comp only has 1. It is imperative that this is done up quite tight before the large knob is fitted. Use of a snug fitting collar intermediate between the scope knob and big knob does distribute the load somewhat and it is best if the squeeze points are reasonably aligned.

I have done knobs which attach directly onto the knob shaft but shooters do not like this. Typical shooters seem to object to all sorts of sensible schemes. Like I just machine the knobble off of my original knobs so a simple sleeve works best. Actually, I have done away with grub screws and replaced then with a simple Phillips Head screw. The number of times I have seen people panic on the mound and scrabble looking for for an Allen key made me think. Screwdrivers are more likely to be on hand and less likely to get lost. There is another reason I will not mention here.

I can never figure out shooters. They are attracted to fine useless confusing graduations on a knob. They spend enormous dollars on pretty gear they see on web sites in the US and forget about performance !!!!!!!!!!

I might get up an article on the development of the FO Coaching Knob. There is a lot more to it that one gleans at first sight.

Peter Smith.

One reason I made the knobs very clear with one ring of numbers and black and white is with the slightest glance from the coach you know what wind is on exactly. If knob is busy (lots on it) or numbers are not standing out like they do black and white you need to look too long to determine your wind while your eyes focus and then brain works it out. We all as we get older take time for eyes to refocus after been looking at flags to close like the wind knob, if numbers on wind knob are super easy to read the time eyes are away from flags can be a split second.
Chris

[ben_g]

Any chance you can do one for a NF BR scope with 6moa turrets.

My old man can’t read the factory turrets on his scope and one of these would be great.

[Pommy Chris]

Any chance you can do one for a NF BR scope with 6moa turrets.

My old man can’t read the factory turrets on his scope and one of these would be great.

It would need a different innder which is doable, problem is the numbers, it would beed stickers doing or redoing the whole thing. I will haqve a think about it.
Cheers
Chris

[pjifl]

I have a file up at https://sites.google.com/site/pjoptical/wind-knob of a strip for a NF BR 6 minute knob. It is a high quality Bitmap.

These are photo files of some of the strips used for the F Open Large Coaching Knobs. You can make your own scales. Eventually we standardized on an outer diameter of 50 mm for all knobs.

Before the Worlds, we were really tearing our hair out because of the variety of different Riflescopes used and also people were changing Riflescopes right up to the actual event. Some were 5 minutes, others 6, 10 and 15 (or was it 14 ?) . I have seen almost everything. Also the inner hole in the knobs had to be tailored to each scope. And tube diameters changed needing different index devices - thanks especially to March ! . For the next Worlds, most had settled on NF Comps which helped. There really was no other option to making strips which glued on and making a larger inner hole with various spaced bushings. Some larger knobs actually needed an individually made knob. All were carved out from solid Aluminium which is a lot of tedious work. No CNC machines were available.

These strips MUST be exactly the right length to meet well around the circumference. This involves careful file manipulation and some trial and error when printing them.

Another consideration was that ALL should be very similar pattern to help the coach and all quickly readable by a plotter 8 feet away. Black on white was deemed best after a LOT of trials. This was achieved by removing ALL extraneous marking like direction arrows and fine graduations and using thick chunky lettering and lines. Some initially were worried that it would be easy to make reading mistakes having only full and half minute marks. This was not the case. Because of the larger diameter and the fact that settings move in definite increments the reading was unmistakable.

We placed a LOT of emphasis on distinguishing Left from Right and tried many schemes. The pattern finally chosen is not quite as nice to read for Right settings than for Left settings but emphasis on R and L was considered far more important. than anything else. Misreading by 1/8 is not usually a disaster but mixing up L and R is a disaster. One misread like that would let down the entire team !

The files are large because they are bitmaps. Better if you want to manipulate the dimensions. Simple 'Paint' which comes with Windows will work on them.

Print off on some high quality photo paper. Laser printers back then were rare and Ink Jet was used and is OK. The strips are cut, a hole punched in the centre of the 0 mark.
Contact Cement was sprayed on the knob held on a pencil and the back of the strips. The paper was applied and trimmed at one end so it matched up leaving a minimum gap at a blank spot near the back of the knob. Finally, after drying, a few applications of Photo Lacquer was sprayed on. I have knobs over 10 years old done like this that are still quite usable.

One point some ignore is where numbers should be placed. It is a world standard in all instruments that numbers are placed at the dividing line between minutes and not be plonked midway. People who are used to reading digital scales seem to be forgetting this. Just because there may be a larger blank space elsewhere does not mean that is ideal for the position of numbers.

I seem to have lost the files for 10 minute strips but attached below is one for the 6 minute NF Benchrest Scope. You can duplicate this and print a sheet containing many strips.

Also attached is a picture of an early experimental Knob using this strip.

I will attempt to write a more detailed article on the development of the large FO Coaching Knob. This will involve searching ancient computer backups.

Peter Smith.

[Azzopardi]

Knowing what windage is set on the scope is always worthwhile and in a 2 target team shoot how else can one coordinate the two coaches and use each other's expertise. The large coaching knob was designed with this in mind. It also allows one to estimate Aerodynamic Jump.

Nightforce BR scopes have the original knobs attached by more than one grub screw. As mentioned the Comp only has 1. It is imperative that this is done up quite tight before the large knob is fitted. Use of a snug fitting collar intermediate between the scope knob and big knob does distribute the load somewhat and it is best if the squeeze points are reasonably aligned.

I have done knobs which attach directly onto the knob shaft but shooters do not like this. Typical shooters seem to object to all sorts of sensible schemes. Like I just machine the knobble off of my original knobs so a simple sleeve works best. Actually, I have done away with grub screws and replaced then with a simple Phillips Head screw. The number of times I have seen people panic on the mound and scrabble looking for for an Allen key made me think. Screwdrivers are more likely to be on hand and less likely to get lost. There is another reason I will not mention here.

I can never figure out shooters. They are attracted to fine useless confusing graduations on a knob. They spend enormous dollars on pretty gear they see on web sites in the US and forget about performance !!!!!!!!!!

I might get up an article on the development of the FO Coaching Knob. There is a lot more to it that one gleans at first sight.

Peter Smith.

Well said!

[Pommy Chris]

I have a file up at https://sites.google.com/site/pjoptical/wind-knob of a strip for a NF BR 6 minute knob. It is a high quality Bitmap.

These are photo files of some of the strips used for the F Open Large Coaching Knobs. You can make your own scales. Eventually we standardized on an outer diameter of 50 mm for all knobs.

Before the Worlds, we were really tearing our hair out because of the variety of different Riflescopes used and also people were changing Riflescopes right up to the actual event. Some were 5 minutes, others 6, 10 and 15 (or was it 14 ?) . I have seen almost everything. Also the inner hole in the knobs had to be tailored to each scope. And tube diameters changed needing different index devices - thanks especially to March ! . For the next Worlds, most had settled on NF Comps which helped. There really was no other option to making strips which glued on and making a larger inner hole with various spaced bushings. Some larger knobs actually needed an individually made knob. All were carved out from solid Aluminium which is a lot of tedious work. No CNC machines were available.

These strips MUST be exactly the right length to meet well around the circumference. This involves careful file manipulation and some trial and error when printing them.

Another consideration was that ALL should be very similar pattern to help the coach and all quickly readable by a plotter 8 feet away. Black on white was deemed best after a LOT of trials. This was achieved by removing ALL extraneous marking like direction arrows and fine graduations and using thick chunky lettering and lines. Some initially were worried that it would be easy to make reading mistakes having only full and half minute marks. This was not the case. Because of the larger diameter and the fact that settings move in definite increments the reading was unmistakable.

We placed a LOT of emphasis on distinguishing Left from Right and tried many schemes. The pattern finally chosen is not quite as nice to read for Right settings than for Left settings but emphasis on R and L was considered far more important. than anything else. Misreading by 1/8 is not usually a disaster but mixing up L and R is a disaster. One misread like that would let down the entire team !

The files are large because they are bitmaps. Better if you want to manipulate the dimensions. Simple 'Paint' which comes with Windows will work on them.

Print off on some high quality photo paper. Laser printers back then were rare and Ink Jet was used and is OK. The strips are cut, a hole punched in the centre of the 0 mark.
Contact Cement was sprayed on the knob held on a pencil and the back of the strips. The paper was applied and trimmed at one end so it matched up leaving a minimum gap at a blank spot near the back of the knob. Finally, after drying, a few applications of Photo Lacquer was sprayed on. I have knobs over 10 years old done like this that are still quite usable.

One point some ignore is where numbers should be placed. It is a world standard in all instruments that numbers are placed at the dividing line between minutes and not be plonked midway. People who are used to reading digital scales seem to be forgetting this. Just because there may be a larger blank space elsewhere does not mean that is ideal for the position of numbers.

I seem to have lost the files for 10 minute strips but attached below is one for the 6 minute NF Benchrest Scope. You can duplicate this and print a sheet containing many strips.

Also attached is a picture of an early experimental Knob using this strip.

I will attempt to write a more detailed article on the development of the large FO Coaching Knob. This will involve searching ancient computer backups.

Peter Smith.

We looked at a few things and black and white is most easy to see, but the other way round than your original ie like the original knobs ie black with white markings is easier to see, white in the sun flares especially when eyes are concentrating on long distance on bright day then short to see a knob, it is why we picked back with clear white markings. What we looked at was trying to reduce the time coach had to look at the knob to get information, old eyes especially.
Thanks for label links.
Chris

[Toddy]

G'day Gents,
Does anyone do the large windage dial for the March benchrest model? I to would like a large easy to read windage dial for teams events to make it easy on the coaches. I can purchase a large dial from BRT and put a label on it as well. Can anyone please advise me on who can help me out with the labels to suit the March large dial?
Large dial pics included.

Cheers Toddy

[pjifl]

One comment about something that may not be obvious and only does becomes apparent after actually making and trying the knob.

An early 2 inch diameter large wind knob that I made had its edge knurled.


This was a disadvantage and a curse. Because of the extra diameter, knurling to aid a better grip is quite unnecessary and you only need to rub against it to change the setting. This is particularly true of one in the windage position directly above the loading port.

The extra diameter actually makes clicks more defined and controllable to a coach who is simply using feel rather than watching the scale all of the time. Some scopes have stiff knobs whose clicks are often not very well defined. These become far more controllable.

Peter Smith.