6 br additional calibre

[Barry Davies]

The previous post clearly highlights the way it should have been, and should be. Particularly for FS.
As i stated previously--open it up and kill it quickly or continue as we are and die slowly.
Barry

[DannyS]

Just be very careful what you wish for, unnecessary rule changes will do nothing but piss people off big time.

[sungazer]

Certainly allowing a 6BR in FSD some have been saying that it wont cost more as you can just rebarrel but I think to be truly competitive at all ranges and conditions it would require you to have both calibres 6br and 308. spinning barrels off and on at the range may be ok for a very small % certainly not my idea of a gun setup.

I would feel disadvantaged weather it is a 6.5cr or 6BR the 6.5c has a similar drop in MOA to 1000yrds but the windage in a 10mph is over 2MOA less. Would that make you feel pissed off and not want to compete. You bet, would kill off numbers very quickly.

The example of competitors shooting FTR at the recent Queens I think is an aberration due to the recent State Teams matches and the upcoming world champs. I know many FTR shooters that slip back into Fstd during the off season as it is cheaper and much less wear on barrels and Brass.

[Weairy]

It's a hard argument. I feel 6BR is just such a nice fit.

My side of it is that my missus has just started shooting F-Class. We have a Barnard with 308 bolt and a 6BR barrel, so she's currently shooting F/O with that. But the short and long of it is, she'll never be able to compete in F/O with a 6BR on a day with anything over about 10-15kmph winds or on any shoots with 600yd+ ranges. I've tried that for two years; there's a good reason I'm moving back to F-Std next season. I've even opted to shoot an F-Std 308 in F/O a few times because it's much more competitive than the 6BR over longer ranges/windy conditions when matched up against a 284/6.5/7SAUM.

Yes, agreed, those with the funds will probably run two rifles, a fair-weather 6BR and a 308 for those long hits. But a good 308 will keep up with a 6BR at the shorter ranges still, and it definitely will handle any sort of wind better.

The thing is, a 6BR has off-the-shelf brass and is very easy to tune. It's a very forgiving caliber and it's great for a beginner. It goes straight into a 308 bolt, unlike a 223, so a lot of the older actions (Omarks for instance) that are around cheap will handle it with a re-barrel. It doesn't have a huge advantage over the 308. It's just nicer to shoot and will be better matched against the 308s than the 223s.

That's my two cents on the whole matter.

[BATattack]

6br with a 105 at 2950 gives about 7.2moa drift at 1000 in 10mph wind while a 308 running a 155.5 at 3020 drifts about 8.6moa.

Those that shoot the 308 will be crying that is unfair just the same way as the 223 shooters are now.

One way you could do it would be to introduce a handicap. Could even be different % between ranges and provides the ability to adapt the % as projectiles evolve into the future at no cost to the competitors. Those that use a 223 have an green band installed toward the muzzle so the RO's and scorers can see that they are using a 223, the score card is marked as 223 and handicap is applied at the end of the day. Shooters could change calibers during the event as the handicap would only be applied to the score cards marked 223. . . . .if they dont nominate it as a 223 before commencing then they dont get the handicap. Anyone seen shooting a 308 with a green band would be thrown out.

No additional calibers or classes required and it wouldn't be too hard to add the function into the online system. It would also allow selectors the ability to see who is using what when choosing teams to compete internationally.

[bruce moulds]

6br with a 105 at 2950 gives about 7.2moa drift at 1000 in 10mph wind while a 308 running a 155.5 at 3020 drifts about 8.6moa.

Those that shoot the 308 will be crying that is unfair just the same way as the 223 shooters are now.

One way you could do it would be to introduce a handicap. Could even be different % between ranges and provides the ability to adapt the % as projectiles evolve into the future at no cost to the competitors. Those that use a 223 have an green band installed toward the muzzle so the RO's and scorers can see that they are using a 223, the score card is marked as 223 and handicap is applied at the end of the day. Shooters could change calibers during the event as the handicap would only be applied to the score cards marked 223. . . . .if they dont nominate it as a 223 before commencing then they dont get the handicap. Anyone seen shooting a 308 with a green band would be thrown out.

No additional calibers or classes required and it wouldn't be too hard to add the function into the online system. It would also allow selectors the ability to see who is using what when choosing teams to compete internationally.

that is 7.2 moa of wind DEFLECTION.
there is a difference between deflection and drift.
bruce.

[Weairy]

6br with a 105 at 2950 gives about 7.2moa drift at 1000 in 10mph wind while a 308 running a 155.5 at 3020 drifts about 8.6moa.

Jesus, you're running a good load if you're getting 2950fps out of 105s in a 6BR. 29.8gn of 2208 gets me to 2730 at a push.

[shift]

I'm more interested in this comment from the NRAA discussion paper:

Costs – Projectiles (from S&T Websites):
• Berger 155.5 box 500 - $341, $375
• Sierra 107gn - $250
• Berger 105gn - $220 - Assuming price for a 500 box?? Umm where and can I buy like 1000 boxes?

[Quick]

Hahaha. I thought the same. I checked everywhere I could think of for those prices. Even 107 at 250 is awesome.

[ben_g]

2800-2850fps is a pretty common speed for the straight BR case. I know of people that have loaded them into the low 2900’s but it’s hard on brass. You might have a slow barrel

But I agree, for your wife to really compete in FO you need to step up to something a little
bigger. The 6Br is not a one gun solution to FO.

A midsized 6.5mm of some kind built up to max weight shouldn’t be much of a handful for her to handle.
Otherwise get an improved BR chamber of some type and run in the low to mid 3000fps range. I run my dasher at 3030fps and am not giving much away to my 284’s out to 600yards.

My dad is recoil sensitive and shoots a 6.5x47L with only the 123’s Lapua’s. BC isnt great and deflection is much worse than my Dasher but he shoots it so well.
When it’s time for him to rebarrel it might be a bigger capacity 6mm like the Creedmoor or at least a Dasher rather than a 6.5mm.

Apparently 3200fps plus is on offer with the 105’s in the creed sized case.

[BATattack]

6br with a 105 at 2950 gives about 7.2moa drift at 1000 in 10mph wind while a 308 running a 155.5 at 3020 drifts about 8.6moa.

Jesus, you're running a good load if you're getting 2950fps out of 105s in a 6BR. 29.8gn of 2208 gets me to 2730 at a push.

Probably similar pressure to what it takes to get 3000 plus in a 308

[BATattack]

Ben they are proposing to introduce 6br as an additional caliber to 223 and 308 in TR and possibly FS. No mention of anything linked to FO.

[ben_g]

Yes I realise the topic is about F-standard

However my comments are to Josh regarding his wife’s BR and it’s velocity potential.

A 6BR ran at its potential will shoot inside the 155’s in an f-standard rifle IMO creating advantage for those who rebarrel to 6mm

I personally think we have too many classes as it stands. I would like to see over the long term a migration to the two ICFRA recognised F-classes.

A top line F-standard rig is just an F-open rifle that weighs a little less with a 308 barrel. We should have a discussion about phasing out F-standard over time. Yes I know that’s a controversial thing to say!! But when your average country OPM has a handful of competitors split over the four F-class disciplines something needs to change, I find it uninspiring to shoot against one or two other shooters.
At least in the first instance drop F-standard B grade.

F-standard was originally designed so those retiring out of TR could use existing barrels and components with a scope. But I think the class has moved a long way from that ethos. Create a timeline so that those with stocks of barrels and components can use them up in F-standard and then rebarrel for either open or FTR

The standard guys are often handing out a beating to the FTR guys, so are 155’s in F-TR a disadvantage??

Ducking for cover now!!!!

[Quick]

Ben,

Its true that often FS guys will beat F/TR. But F/TR has its own challenges. The bipod, weight limit, recoil management are all important factors. I've seen some come to F/TR thinking its easier with the big bullets but learning it takes alot more to make the setup work. Hell even with 155 it still hard.

If you look at the last WARA Queens. Top F/TR beat top FS by around 10 points. When it really blows, those big bullets help.

[ben_g]

Point is those with some 155’s left over after a changeover period could still use them competitively at midrange or for club level shooting in an FTR rifle.

It won’t change, and many would be opposed to my views, but to me it makes the attendance and running of an OPM or queens much simpler and a bigger more competitive field of shooters in less classes makes for more interesting shooting IMO.