RUN TOO FAST?

Get or give advice on equipment, reloading and other technical issues.

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UL1700
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: RUN TOO FAST?

#46 Postby UL1700 » Mon May 25, 2020 7:54 pm

RDavies wrote:. One thing I can guarantee is that if my wife knew how much it all cost, she would never let me spend it either.


Mine shoots, it sort of opens the door a little to what I can spend but also puts on a fair break as she knows what its all worth #-o Somehow she has a Dasher and a SAUM with the SEB MAX and the March scope and I'm left with the 308 and NF BR scope :roll:

KHGS wrote:I am also a one caliber man too (I have 4 of them)........but I do use several loads for different purposes.
Keith H.


I'm working on it :lol:

wsftr
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: RUN TOO FAST?

#47 Postby wsftr » Mon May 25, 2020 8:23 pm

RDavies wrote:I have a definite view on whether to practice with a combination which gives lots of wind drift, or one which bucks the wind very well, and that definite view is that it depends, could be either way.
Different shooters minds work in different ways, and all can be right.

It is like some people say you must wind down to 20x if there is any mirage, while others prefer to stay at 55x. Both are right if it suits their particular brain.

It is like how I hold centre and adjust the scope for every shot, but Alan does the opposite, hardly touches the scope, but holds off for every shot. Both work for either of us.

As for do you practice wind reading with a 6BR and shoot comps with a 7mm? One school will say practice with what you compete with, so you get used to the calibers wind drift, recoil etc and for many shooters this could likely be the best solution. My way likely wont work for most and likely isn't best for me, but I like to play, so I make a rule never to use a 7mm at anything under a Queens level shoot, unless it is fire forming or load development. If I am practicing or at an OPM at 300yds, I will use my 6PPC, or 22 BR. If I am shooting 5-600 I will use my 6BR, 6BRA, or Dasher. Further out I will likely use my 6.5x47, or maybe even drag out my slow running 284, or will use my 308 F/tr gun. In this way, with ballisticly limited calibres I really have to work hard to keep up with the bigger guns, so my wind reading, tactics, set up and concentration has to be spot on.

The downside of this is when I get to a Queens, the recoil of the SAUM comes as a bit of a surprise for the first few shots but I get used to after a few ranges. I also have to adjust how much wind I need compared to my little guns but this works for me. Maybe I would do better staying with a SAUM all the way, not sure. For many, my approach would not work at all and they would struggle with different holds, winds, recoil etc and are much better off doing what they are doing, and practicing with what they compete with.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it works for ME and maybe not you.


Wow - there is so much in this post - fantastic thank you - it raises many, many questions and none relate to the calibre or how many of them you shoot. :)

John T
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:42 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: RUN TOO FAST?

#48 Postby John T » Mon May 25, 2020 11:52 pm

Don't believe a word Devine says. He just wants to know her name.

BATattack
Posts: 1275
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:29 pm

Re: RUN TOO FAST?

#49 Postby BATattack » Wed May 27, 2020 2:10 pm

RDavies wrote:I have a definite view on whether to practice with a combination which gives lots of wind drift, or one which bucks the wind very well, and that definite view is that it depends, could be either way.
Different shooters minds work in different ways, and all can be right.

It is like some people say you must wind down to 20x if there is any mirage, while others prefer to stay at 55x. Both are right if it suits their particular brain.

It is like how I hold centre and adjust the scope for every shot, but Alan does the opposite, hardly touches the scope, but holds off for every shot. Both work for either of us.

As for do you practice wind reading with a 6BR and shoot comps with a 7mm? One school will say practice with what you compete with, so you get used to the calibers wind drift, recoil etc and for many shooters this could likely be the best solution. My way likely wont work for most and likely isn't best for me, but I like to play, so I make a rule never to use a 7mm at anything under a Queens level shoot, unless it is fire forming or load development. If I am practicing or at an OPM at 300yds, I will use my 6PPC, or 22 BR. If I am shooting 5-600 I will use my 6BR, 6BRA, or Dasher. Further out I will likely use my 6.5x47, or maybe even drag out my slow running 284, or will use my 308 F/tr gun. In this way, with ballisticly limited calibres I really have to work hard to keep up with the bigger guns, so my wind reading, tactics, set up and concentration has to be spot on.

The downside of this is when I get to a Queens, the recoil of the SAUM comes as a bit of a surprise for the first few shots but I get used to after a few ranges. I also have to adjust how much wind I need compared to my little guns but this works for me. Maybe I would do better staying with a SAUM all the way, not sure. For many, my approach would not work at all and they would struggle with different holds, winds, recoil etc and are much better off doing what they are doing, and practicing with what they compete with.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it works for ME and maybe not you.


Yep agreed.

Every person is wired differently and what works for one won't work for the other. For a new shooter I think it matters more about reliably consistent accuracy than absolute wind cheating BC and tack hole accuracy. If you give a new shooter a gun that is consistently capable of .5-.75moa, that they can manage the recoil of, then they have a platform that they can build all other skills from. Skills of wind reading but also, barrel and rifle maintenance and reloading. Chances are that if they have a bad day, and then they have a consistent platform, then hopefully only one of those variables was the cause. If they don't have a consistent platform to reference then it's easy to end up down a rabbit hole of "what was the real issue today" or "how many of those issues did I encounter today".

For an experienced shooter all those 1% gains add up and different comprimises are made between winning and reliability because they have learnt how to identify what the issue is and correct it before it becomes detrimental.

ben_g
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: RUN TOO FAST?

#50 Postby ben_g » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:34 am

I think if your running 'one gun' shoot the most accurate node whatever speed that might be and practise practise practise!

For a shooter who is establishing their technique and wind reading strategy, having a rifle/bag setup that groups very well is of more importance than 'wind cheating' ability. If you know your rifle is capable of grouping well then you know its either technique or condition that is losing you points, not the gear. I think we are all quick to blame the load or the barrel or the scope when I would bet that its the shooter 90% of the time!

Usually reduced loads are not as accurate as optimum loads, just as maxed out loads tend to also become erratic. I personally see no point practising with a load that may not realise the full potential of the rifle even for someone who is learning. A new shooter will progress far faster with good equipment.

I don't feel there is any great advantage to practising with a calibre that drifts more in regards to honing wind reading. As pointed out earlier the difference in a missed condition change is a squeaky 5 vs a 5 a little further out.

Having said that if I don't have a load that needs tweaking/testing in a SAUM or WSM I use a Dasher/284win in club shoots to save the 'big guns' for bigger events. I also use the Dasher for OPM's that don't go past 600m. I don't feel the calibre makes that much difference in how you apply your wind strategy, it can save you from a squeaky 5 on occasion (as Alans statistical simulation demonstrates), but you need to be watching the conditions very closely no matter what calibre you shoot.

The only downside with practising with a smaller calibre is managing the recoil when you step back up to a short magnum. The recoil difference between 284 and SAUM isn't much at all IMO, but the 300WSM definitely moves and torques a lot more. Any inconsistencies in your bag setup and trigger technique will be magnified with the big 30cal.

I used 3 calibers on the first day of the lead-up at Canberra last year, mainly because I like to tinker and I didn't want to rack up too many rounds on my SAUM, but also to see what barrel is running best in the conditions ........ that weeded out a 284 (planned to use in the shorter ranges) that was definitely underperforming so it was not used beyond the first range.


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