6.5 Ackerley improved loads

[jlorimer]

Hello fellow F Class shooters.
I've just built my latest F Open rifle in 6.5X55 Ackerly improved 40 degree shoulder.has anybody else out there played with this case. I have searched the net, but havn't found any load info. The case capacity is about 61gns of AR2209 to the top of the neck. This represents about a 10% inscrease over the parent case, and and appears to have more case capacity then the 6.5 improved Rogue.

I have carried out some load development, but rain has put a stop to that for a few more days. so far I tried out AR2209 to 44 grains using 139 gn Lapua scenar projectiles, which give me a speed of 2744fps, and 48gns of AR2213 which give me a speed of 2770fps.I am going to see how far I can go with the with the AR2209, but I suspect that AR2213SC will be the powder, at about 50,5 gns for 2900fps - I hope.

TONY Z! have you got any feelings on this. The rifle specs are: Remington 700 DBL long action fitted with a Krieger 1:8 X 29.5" Palma match profile barrel

[AlanF]

John,

I know of 3 using 6.5x55AI - two were at the Canberra Queens - Barry Duncan and Mick Passlow. Also, Mark Hamersley (WA). Both Barry and Mark are members of this Forum, so you may get them by PM.

It should be an excellent cartridge - just about ideal case capacity for 6.5 IMO.

Alan

[RAVEN]

Hi John Iam sure this will be a great cartridge for F-Class i know bjld used a standard version and it shot very well.
I dont know much about 6.5X55AI loads but my advise would be to do a ladder test and let it tell U were it likes to be loaded.
I have used this method on 4 occasions know and it works great.
Some ppl find it dificult as it needs to be done at at least 500m and they sometimes get someone to pull the target to mark the shot.
What i do is set up a video camera framing the target @ 500m once I have I fire all my test loads over the chrony I go and get the video and target reply the video and make the shots on the target as they appear then do the 5 shot test loads at 300m.
I can determine a good load in about 45 rounds.
Cheers
RICHARD

[Matt P]

Hi John
I shoot a 6.5 x57 AI which is very similar but with a longer neck I have tried 2209, 2213, VVn165 & 2217 and alway go back to 2209 anywhere from 45.0- 46.0 with moly 142SMK depending on powder lot and cases (Norma or RWS). Alan Peake from Canberra uses a 6.5 x 55 Arch (same as Ackley but slightly different shoulder 44 degree I think) and I'm pretty sure he uses 46 of 2209.
Hope this helps.
Matt P

[jlorimer]

Thanks guys for the input, this is a new beast to me, and the least rounds put down the barrel experimenting, means more comps shot with the barrel. Matt! I too like 2209, 2213sc seems to run on the dirty side to me, plus, it's more powder down the throat, so must descrease barrel life somewhat.

The NQ shooters using the 6.5 Rogue shoot at around 2800fps, with very good grouping from 600m out. using 43gns of 2209. My cartridge needs to go to about 44.6gns to get the same speed, with the same bullet. I think the Ackerley cartridge with it's larger capacity will be able to shoot at a higher level node,which may come in handy at some shoots

[Tony Z]

edited 20/4/06

[RAVEN]

it’s more powder down the throat, so must decrease barrel life somewhat.

Hi John the 2213 will give U longer barrel life as the flame temp is a lot lower than 2209 as I understand.
Tony Z interesting comment about 2213 and 2217 must be that steamy northern climate coz in the south I have not had that problem with either of these powders as you have described.
Cheers
RB

[jlorimer]

Thanks for the info Tony. Your experiences with 2213SC are on line with mine. Indeed humidity may be the culprit. I havn't got to the stage you have found with the powder. I just stop using the stuff, when I find everything is sooting up, however, I have tried using the old 2213 and didn't have the problem, again, humidity may be the major player here also?

I am taking Matts' and your advice and will take the 2209 for a ride, and see if it performs at around the 2900 node. Sten Alstrom and Peter Smith are running at 2800 after finding this speed the best for the Rogue/barrel life. My cartridge is 10thou wider then the Rogue at the shoulder,and has a lot more powder capacity. Weather permitting, I should have the testing completed by Friday PM. and will post the results.

Raven! Some people have all the luck. I havenot heard of one F Open shooter in NQ who has had any good words about 2213SC, and most go on to the 2217,however, I feel this powder is too slow for the improved Swede case, to get up to speed Vs amount of powder used. I might be wrong! and may have to eat crow, if that's the powder I end up using. Some "experts" say this powder will give longer barrel life because of the lower burning temp. The use of mollied progectiles is susposed to descrease the temp. by 400F, and you're not putting all that powder down the throat

[Tony Z]

edited 20/4/06

[RAVEN]

Well TZ have never heard of that before very interesting thanx

[bruce moulds]

the man's name was p. o. ackley.
bruce.

[Matt P]

John
In my experience moly doesn't help barrel life I have shot out quite a few barrels now including 2 6.5x57AI using 45gr of 2209 and factory moly coated 142 SMK and 139 Lapuas first barrel went @ 1600 rounds but I continued for another 300 (waste of time and money) the second went at 1250 which I thought was a little quick, BUT boy did it shoot I won 4 queens with it. I beleive in almost all FO calibers the barrels are worn out between 1500-2000 rounds. By worn out I mean not competitive at prize shoot level.

Matt P

[AlanF]

...I beleive in almost all FO calibers the barrels are worn out between 1500-2000 rounds. By worn out I mean not competitive at prize shoot level...

Matt,

In your experience, what's the accuracy life of a standard 6BR?

And also, when a barrel "goes", are there any sudden changes you notice, or is it just a gradual increase in group size? I have a Tru-Flite with nearly 1500 up, and haven't noticed anything bad yet.

Alan

[Matt P]

Alan
Can't say yet but my current barrel has 1712 rounds thru it and still looks good and shoots great.I plan to rechamber @ 2000 and hope to get at least another 1200. In all my other calibers the throat is to worn to make rechambering viable I'm hoping that isn't the case with the BR.

Matt P

[jlorimer]

Good Discussion this one, Matty I agree with you, and I have mentioned on previous posts,that we tend to go over the limit with our barrels. On the wear rate for 6mm BR Norma, I found three inches of throat wear in a 28" barrel after 2550 rounds,(not mine by the way) My own 6BR, 26" went at around the 2800. Matt's got the right idea,rechamber after 1500,and you will probably get 3000 out of a barrel. Above mentioned barrel used 30.4gns of 2208 for 50% of it's life with 107 Sierras,and the other 50% with 105 Lapuas.My barrel used 31.5gns of AR2208, and 105 Lapuas. Some school of thought, is that the Lapuas will take out a barrel before the Sierras, I can't comment on this, but I prefer the Lapuas myself.

With respect to Moly coated bullets, I think it is what works best for you. I went to moly years ago, with the 308 and got into all sorts of trouble with Moly fouling, gave it away, but then came back to it for the 6mm rifles. I use it all the time now, but the coating is so thin you can see the copper colour through the Moly. I think Moly definitly dissapates heat,as Harold Vaughn states, but I think this is offset by burning more powder to get the same pressure. I use it because I can shoot all weekend without cleaning, and everytime I clean it takes about 3 shots for the rifle to get back into the groove.

back to the 6.5 Ackerley. I promised I would produce the testing results.I did all initial testing at 300m using a 35P Oehler chronograph. I took AR2209 from 43 - 46.6 gns, and while I got some some impressive results out of the 35P. I could not get under 17mm vertical dispersion on paper. I also tried AR2213SC from 48gns to 50.5gns,and, at 49 gns and 2850fps got a dispersion of 12mm.

As I'm not partial to 2213, I loaded up the best of the 2209 loads which was 46 gns for 2840fps with 17 mm disp, and shot our Sunday shoot, over 500m 2 x 10 shots matches. I was more in the nine ring then the ten, and could only achieve low nineties. After the shoot I fired 5 shots of 49gns of 2213sc and put the first shot at 12 O'clock 9 ring, and without changing the sighting, put the next four shots in the nine, through the 2" spotting disc, so guess who is going to use 2213SC for this barrel.

Tony! I went from CCI BR primers to Federal Gold Match 210, and the hotter primer got rid of the sooting problem with the 2213SC. What it is doing to the the throat, only time will tell