Help... Hero to zero in one range

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UL1700
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:39 pm

Help... Hero to zero in one range

#1 Postby UL1700 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:00 pm

OK so I have been shooting F Open for a few months (6BR 29.1grn 2208 105VLD 15thou jam) and I go from shooting a scrappy 60.09 to 57.02 on my next range (both at 500) with a pattern that I would be impressed with from my shotgun. Weather conditions worsened but only by an extra k or two of wind and a slight mirage increase. Both required minor scope adjustments to compensate but I spent the next 12 shots chasing my tail all over the target :shock: It felt like the scope was taking a shot or two to respond but I'm hesitant to blame equipment. The previous week at 300 i shot 60.09 twice (best group size of 28mm and 20mm of vert) and 60.07 after a barrel clean.

ImageScreenshot_20180430-143342 by James Elphick, on Flickr

60.09 at 500

ImageScreenshot_20180430-143409 by James Elphick, on Flickr

57.02 at 500

ImageScreenshot_20180430-145554 by James Elphick, on Flickr

60.09 at 300
Last edited by UL1700 on Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gyro
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#2 Postby Gyro » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:21 pm

Don't panic. It's not that bad. Could just be the conditions ?

UL1700
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#3 Postby UL1700 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Could be, third range I took the approach of touching nothing once in the super ring including the rest (SEB max) just fired from where the rifle returned and shot 60.04 weather was unchanged.

macguru
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#4 Postby macguru » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:36 pm

you may just need to increase the powder charge by 3 grains... AFTER the application of a dasher reamer to the chamber . really it could just be the conditions ....

UL1700
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#5 Postby UL1700 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:03 pm

I know that I struggle with mirage so it could be, but I would have expected to drop a few supers and maybe a 6 not that horror show! I keep toying with the idea of a Dasher or BRX but from what I have read it looks hard to justify the time and cost of fire forming. I still have some capacity left so i could increase my current load further but its siting nicely at the moment.

williada
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#6 Postby williada » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:16 pm

James, one swallow does not make a summer. Its a good idea to view all your groups in order to see if there is an underlying pattern the rifle is showing. This rifle displays a vertical tendency which is exacerbated with distance. However the 57, is definitely a fishtale mirage dispersion on top of the rifle bias. Minor fixes may be in order for your gear. You need a mentor to show you how to read mirage.


je.jpg
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KHGS
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#7 Postby KHGS » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:35 pm

UL1700 wrote:I know that I struggle with mirage so it could be, but I would have expected to drop a few supers and maybe a 6 not that horror show! I keep toying with the idea of a Dasher or BRX but from what I have read it looks hard to justify the time and cost of fire forming. I still have some capacity left so i could increase my current load further but its siting nicely at the moment.


Trigger time before chasing technical "fixes" !!!!! Fine tuning may be required...........but I would concentrate on technique & learning wind doping FIRST!!!!!!!!
Keith H.

UL1700
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#8 Postby UL1700 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:02 pm

My wife is currently shooting the same action and is getting very similar group sizes and vert. We are getting as much trigger time as possible but there is a lot to take in when you start. I have also been shooting FTR which I prefer but we like the 6BR for it mild manners. I haven't come across the term fishtail mirage, I will do some research. I'm finding that the more times Sophie and I come one and two at the end of a days practice shoot the less free advice we receive :P despite only really shooting since Christmas. The 600 yard group was 28grns 2208 and a 10thou jump... was ugly have been working the load up since then and the missing weeks were shot at a range without hexta.

macguru
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#9 Postby macguru » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:12 pm

first one is affected by left wind at 500m (6x47). a little mirage running left to right. Nice flat group below:

Screen Shot 2018-04-30 at 7.10.54 pm.png


second one is affected by heavier mirage at 600m.no wind . hard to place the shot consistently. giving elevations
image below:

of course you could have both at the same time,......

Andrew
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Last edited by macguru on Tue May 01, 2018 10:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

mike H
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#10 Postby mike H » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:39 pm

UL1700 wrote:My wife is currently shooting the same action and is getting very similar group sizes and vert. We are getting as much trigger time as possible but there is a lot to take in when you start. I have also been shooting FTR which I prefer but we like the 6BR for it mild manners. I haven't come across the term fishtail mirage, I will do some research. I'm finding that the more times Sophie and I come one and two at the end of a days practice shoot the less free advice we receive :P despite only really shooting since Christmas. The 600 yard group was 28grns 2208 and a 10thou jump... was ugly have been working the load up since then and the missing weeks were shot at a range without hexta.

This may sound a bit rough,so turn off now if you are a sensitive person,obviously you are keen and have made a good start and now you believe that 60 plus lots of X’s is the norm.In my opinion it isn’t,except for State and World champions,just slow down,try and shoot at different ranges and competitions and enjoy your shooting.In a year or two you will improve and wonder why you worried so much.

UL1700
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#11 Postby UL1700 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:52 pm

Sounds fair enough to me, I'd rarther be told to shoot more then spend more! I think part of the problem is that once you start to post some OK scores people worry that thay are going to be telling you to suck eggs and that's not the case. 1st comp is going to be the autisium shoot at Grantville in a couple of weeks :)

GSells
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#12 Postby GSells » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:33 pm

Very hard to pin down if a rifle is in tune in rough conditions ! The above suggest conditions just got you ! There is the classic 10 to 4 slope on your 300 yrds and I'll take a stab at that one and say a slight wind from the right ?

500 yrd 57.2 is wind and mirage , combined with wind vectoring .

Don't believe the the elevation stays constant through a string ! Well it will if the load is good and conditions allow it .

If you just started out , your doing well , just learn what conditions do what .
I'm not shooting much at the moment , but a month ago I shot a 118.9 at 600 yds 280 ai and that's out of 126 up here in Qld .
The conditions were just rough! You can't wind and mirage read everything lol! Just enjoy it , no doubt with your drive and passion we will see up on the Queens list somewhere , good luck mate .
Regards Graham . 8)

GSells
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#13 Postby GSells » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:39 pm

williada wrote:James, one swallow does not make a summer. Its a good idea to view all your groups in order to see if there is an underlying pattern the rifle is showing. This rifle displays a vertical tendency which is exacerbated with distance. However the 57, is definitely a fishtale mirage dispersion on top of the rifle bias. Minor fixes may be in order for your gear. You need a mentor to show you how to read mirage.


je.jpg

David , thanks for all of the effort you put into the sport ! I'm sorry I missed u last year when I was down that way !
Regards Graham .
Last edited by GSells on Tue May 01, 2018 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ben_g
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Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#14 Postby ben_g » Tue May 01, 2018 5:33 pm

I am a middle of the road F-open shooter.

I like to think most days at my home range I can pick the conditions. Usually I hope to score between 87 and 90 in a 15shot stage.

Not on Saturday though!! See below to see what a gentle but constantly switching mirage can do to your groups!!

Use it as a learning experience, some days even the best shooters can be left scratching their heads.

Mirage can really open up the group if it’s constantly shifting/ fish tailing and boiling.

http://www.ozscore.com.au/club_stage-ne ... sf=3&disp=

UL1700
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Help... Hero to zero in one range

#15 Postby UL1700 » Tue May 01, 2018 7:24 pm

Thanks Ben its good to see I'm not the only one :) Having talked it through and knowing I'm not going mad / having kit issues is good. Dropping the final shot two weeks in a row was possibly more frustrating then the second range as I think I know why it happened. Mirage was the most significant change between the 1st and 2nd range. I think one mistake I keep making is to have to much magnification on when the mirage is bad. I can't see the center of the target, it's floating around by 1 to 2+ minuets and I start chasing the center rather then backing off the scope and accepting the smaller target...


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