The Future

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lightcaliber
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:22 pm

Re: The Future

#136 Postby lightcaliber » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:03 pm

What we need is for our NRAA to get their heads out their behinds and get strong like the NRA and promote shooting as a sport, not be pussies and let the media run this country. I have owned a firearm since i was about ten, used to carry one on a bike and go out chasing pigs after school. Those were the good old days but now we cave in to any law that some one think up.

POTSHOT
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:30 pm

Re: The Future

#137 Postby POTSHOT » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:53 am

It is always going to be a challenging task to attract new members to a "sport/organization" that is seen/understood by a fair proportion (not all) of the general public as dangerous, blood thirsty and strongly relates to killing (through a constant NEGATIVE light by the media) - A cold hard fact about guns/firearms ownership and use in this country at this present time.

Add to the fact it is not really a spectator sport, it's loud, you are normally are laying on the ground - in the sun (savage this time year - particularly if you live in the tropics) - your pool of candidates for new recruits starts to shrink pretty quickly.
Then consider:
*The equipment is expensive $3,000 to $10,000 (for what could be considered standard for T/R to FOpen).
*Regulations/licensing/storage (some newcomers to the shooting sport can find this a little daunting).
*It is, as such, a rather "specialist" sport and can and usually does takes some years to become good/competitive at (subjective and personal goals are the governing factors - it's what YOU want to achieve).
*Technical knowledge needs to be quite high, comparative to the average shooter that buys a couple of boxes of ammo for a given rife, proceeds to his/her local SSAA range and shoots in a basic match (of some sort).
*Then there is the cost and setting up for reloading - arguable, but, in all reality it's a necessity.
*Setting up and tuning ones rifle(s)/loads is often time consuming and somewhat challenging (part of technical knowledge).
*Time constraints. We generally now work longer hours than ever before, which impacts on work/life balance, which can have a major effect on commitment to the sport (or any sport for that matter).
If one intends to shoot at a few other events (other club prize meets etc), travel - is usually always by car and fuel is like liquid gold $$$$$$
This is not a negative post. But, You need to know and understand the product you are trying to sell (club membership - new members), you have to break down and isolate each factor that contributes to the problem, Prioritize the problems, both positive or negative and then and only then can you start to address corrective solutions. The same basic strategies/models are used in business world wide when targeting a particular demographic.

Hence the main question, How does one attract new members?
is a new class like PRS required?, Is amalgamation worth consideration?

bruce moulds
Posts: 2428
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: The Future

#138 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:33 am

or do you promote what you have now in a meaningful way rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Barry Davies
Posts: 1203
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: The Future

#139 Postby Barry Davies » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:14 am

Yes Bruce, Promote what we have. It's not difficult
9 pages of mostly waffle summed up in one post by Mr ? Potshot. Cold hard facts that seem to be too difficult to address, or, the capabilities to address are not there.
You know, it took us better that 60 years to get the trigger pressure reduced to what is somewhere near an acceptable value for precision shooting, and that's where our problems lie -- too little too late.
You only have too have a look at what is happening with country PM's,- not all , but most. If it was not for F Class we would be dead already. But even now F class has not been accepted by some, so what chance " plinkers "?

williada
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:37 am

Re: The Future

#140 Postby williada » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:20 am

Well put Barry and Potshot. Live by the sword and you will die by the sword. Our key asset is control of the ranges through rights to them or ownership of some of them. The control won't be lost and this I feel is the sticking point for some with closed minds, if we share those ranges by way of legal agreement with other organisations from the outset rather than by gentleman's agreement and enforce it.

We saw the loss of the Williamstown Rifle Range in Melbourne because the "Old Boys" did not have the vision or wisdom to protect shooter's interests in what the VRA actually owned at one point or were hard nosed enough to realise they could be scammed by those who changed their minds at a whim of political interest in the future. The NSW Rifle Association certainly stood up to save Malabar and did not rely on a wink and a nod to protect their memberships rights.

I think there is enough space to accommodate a range of disciplines with due thought, organisation and agreement because if shooters in general do not occupy that space the land will be turned over to other community uses and that is the bottom line.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2428
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: The Future

#141 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:15 pm

here is what sara did.
decided to shoot fullbore and fclass on sat mornings during summer.
the big game rifle guys that shot on sat mornings were kicked off with no right of reply.
the mil discipline books some sunday mornings on a standing basis.
a team planned a practice on one of these mornings, and expected the mil guys to forfeit on the morning on the range with no notification.
the safari guys have given up in disgust, and the mil guys are seriously unhappy.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

sungazer
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:58 pm

Re: The Future

#142 Postby sungazer » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:14 am

bruce moulds wrote:here is what sara did.
decided to shoot fullbore and fclass on sat mornings during summer.
the big game rifle guys that shot on sat mornings were kicked off with no right of reply.
the mil discipline books some sunday mornings on a standing basis.
a team planned a practice on one of these mornings, and expected the mil guys to forfeit on the morning on the range with no notification.
the safari guys have given up in disgust, and the mil guys are seriously unhappy.
bruce.


Thats not a very smart or nice way to do things. They now have set up grievances withing the shooting community rather than try to expand the usage of the range.

Willada was right on the money "if shooters in general do not occupy that space the land will be turned over to other community uses and that is the bottom line." The land will be used to support the biggest community group. Five guys shooting once a week will have very little public voice.

bsouthernau
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:31 pm

Re: The Future

#143 Postby bsouthernau » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:11 am

williada wrote:I think there is enough space to accommodate a range of disciplines with due thought, organisation and agreement because if shooters in general do not occupy that space the land will be turned over to other community uses and that is the bottom line.


We've certainly got the space and I, for one, have no objection to sharing the range with someone who just wants to muck around. The sticking points are:

- range approvals, as Alan pointed out in an earlier post. We're approved for fullbore and field class, the latter of which gives a bit of freedom in what you can do.

- plinking is better suited to a gallery range. You can't just sit a target on the 800 mound when you're shooting 900 because of the damage to the mound, seats etc.

Any thoughts on how to get around this?

Barry

Cliff Austen
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:18 am
Location: Sydney NSW Australia

Re: The Future

#144 Postby Cliff Austen » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:52 pm

Hi All. The future is not rocket science but it will take work and dedication. Clubs need to become masters of their own destiny and not rely on the peak body for survival I have 450 members at Nowra. The bulk of them shoot at general practice - plinkers. Then there is the group who will shoot in the internal comps and lastly there is a small group who shoot in State and National comps in either Fullbore, F Classes, Blackpowder, Shotgun or Pistol. About 27 years ago we turned our club around from a pure Fullbore club with 12 members to a multi-disciplined club. We are financially sound with a strong membership.
To quote Charles Darwin: “It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.”
See our web site.
Happy New Year. Cheers Cliff

williada
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:37 am

Re: The Future

#145 Postby williada » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:21 pm

Hi Barry, I can rightly speak with experience in brokering the transition from Federal control to State control in Victoria of VRA rifle ranges meeting with the then Defence Minister Moore representing the VRA; and before that for the VRA with the Hamer Liberal government, closely followed the Cain Labor Government in Victoria when involved in implementing Hunter Safety Education and the Firearm's Safety Code which led to testing to obtain a shooter's license. Back then, matters fed back into the Steering Committee then later the Consultative Committee, a constituted body under the Firearms Act Vic.

In reality policy decisions are made at senior levels. These are the people who should be engaged in a meaningful way through proper and also informal networks to assist us and enable good people to present pros and cons, threats and opportunities in order that public servants can implement their decisions. Heads of departments and Ministers are strategic thinkers and discussions are of great value to them. There is certainly a "Pareto Optimum", here.

In a press release dated August 18, 2018 from the Minister of Police and Emergency Service Victoria Lisa Neville, it was said,

"We will continue to support legitimate firearm owners in Victoria through a strong regulatory system that protects the interests of responsible firearm owners, while continuing to crack down on organised criminals and serious offenders who seek to use firearms illegally to cause harm in our community..."
This is encouraging for dialogue.

Also, many clubs in the VRA have received thousands of dollars for range development under a number of grant umbrellas to enhance community involvement. We are not the bad guys, and the authorities know that and we can offer a place for people to go to take pressure off policing. Yes the range approval must be granted by the police to change the format, and I honestly do not see that as an impediment when safety needs can be met when there is a changing focus in the community the police need to respond to. They are not the bogey men either as some try to cast them, but they have to manage their scarce resources with priorities. We simply need to be at the table with them.

The reality is, the politicians are a catalyst for change top down. If not already doing so, it would be pertinent for our VRA councilors to start the ball rolling by liaising with politicians and other firearms bodies to further enhance the community with better facilities and safe practice with responsible firearm ownership. That would certainly include embracing the plinkers whose roaming territory is shrinking but still remain firearm owners. It would be a win/win.

If individuals are in dispute about their firearms, licensing etc., the VCAT has authority to hear such matters. Fairer Firearms Regulations 2018, demonstrates the language of communication in its name. Good communication is not dead and remains two way. Also Firearms Appeal Committee is made up of a number of members nominated by shooting bodies.

So I feel its a question of tapping into knowledgeable people who are able to offer current advice in official capacities if we are to further our interests as shooters.

Just adding Barry, with regards to protecting downrange mounds, seats etc. Portable bullet traps are the solution. Thinking of building a steel one at home having seen one on Youtube some time ago. Could use the lead for sinkers? :D

POTSHOT
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:30 pm

Re: The Future

#146 Postby POTSHOT » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:29 pm

Barry Davies,

Sorry Barry, i thought/assumed (assumptions being the mother of all f*up's i know) that members would be able to see who submitted a post. I'm not completely familiar with the site, in particular what information was/is displayed about me or my profile.

As an "add on" to my above post. That is the sort of methodology i would be using if i were tasked to try and develop a solution or form some type of strategy. Make no mistake about it, You will cop criticism from a % of people or members with almost any change (change management is important), accept criticism both good and bad - view it subjectively.
I also believe impartiality, acceptance and integration are key elements and components to success.
Of the clubs that i have had the pleasure of competing at, all have a different feel or vibe (as an outsider, without any bias). A couple have a very progressive attitude and you can see they are thinking outside the square, and attracting new members in the process.
I do not want to mention, what clubs i believe are good or bad in this respect, as that is counter productive to play one club against another (although with a "very" careful approach it could be used constructively). Throw it out there to some extent, put new ideas on the table, lead by example, get others to follow rather than be pushed. Be transparent and ethical in your approach and delivery of new ideas and directions.

Either way, it is still a hard sell, and without new ideas or progressions the sport may become stagnated or shrink.
Just my thoughts and 2 cents worth.

My apologies as well for the lack of a name,

John Farmer
Townsville.


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