6 br additional calibre

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budget
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6 br additional calibre

#1 Postby budget » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:18 pm

i read with dismay that the now new board will be bringing out a discussion paper on bringing out yet another rule change in the form of another calibre for target rifle.
i do not know enough about 6br but i figure this could be a game changer from 3-6 for us tr shooters if it was to be ratified.
i though the .223 was to cover the void for old to new shooters but i may be wrong .
can someone comment on the pros and cons of the .223 against the 6br?
I'm confused.
regards paul.

bolster55
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#2 Postby bolster55 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:27 am

Hi
Where do you find the discussion paper?

Barry Davies
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#3 Postby Barry Davies » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:50 am

Can you imagine the confusion. RO's cannot tell the difference between projectiles let alone the difference between a 6BR, 6BRX, 6 Dasher, 6 XC, 6 x 47 and however more 6 mm there are.
Then one would need two rifles -6mm and 308 to be competitive.
Wonder who the bright spark is that put this one up.
Barry

bruce moulds
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#4 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:58 am

there would be a lot of 308 barrels suddenly become obsolete.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

scott/r
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#5 Postby scott/r » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:16 am

bolster55 wrote:Hi
Where do you find the discussion paper?


It's on the nraa website. Under the 2019 agm heading.
There's also papers for nraa name change and one for ammo levy.
Scott.

bruce moulds
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#6 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:30 am

well right or wrong, at least the nraa seem to have started thinking.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

bsouthernau
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#7 Postby bsouthernau » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:13 am

budget wrote:

i though the .223 was to cover the void for old to new shooters but i may be wrong .
can someone comment on the pros and cons of the .223 against the 6br?

Good questions. It would seem the underlying basis for the proposal is that people don't want to shoot the .223 due to "perceptions and misunderstanding." I therefore found it curious that there was no mention of the .223 in the costings or ballistics.

I'm also a bit puzzled by the statement that the 6mm might lose out at the longs when the graphs show them with more retained velocity at 1000 than the .308s. Are the MVs unrealistic?

I realise BC isn't everything but for comparison:
Berger .224 90gr VLD .281
Sierra 6mm 107gr MK .258
Berger 6mm 105gr VLD .272
Berger .308 155.5gr FB .237

Barry

scott/r
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#8 Postby scott/r » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:12 am

My concerns are, are the nraa board trying to get more arms slings by introducing a new caliber, or are they just trying to introduce a new caliber to f stanard through the back door?
One of the reasons I shoot target rifle is because of heritage of the style of shooting, and I understand there is a class of prone shooting in the states and Europe (I think ) that shoot the short ranges with 6br and it's improved cases, but not what nraa are asking to introduce.
I don't shoot standard so I don't beleive that I have the right to comment on that side of the proposal, but as far as t/r goes, I'll be voting against it if given the opportunity.
Scott

budget
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Location: upper north south australia

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#9 Postby budget » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:14 am

well i am so glad by some of the responses .i for one just don't understand what the hell is happening to our sport.as previously stated i do nor know anything about the six br,but have seen them in action at lots of queens comps and they are very impressive out to 6-7.
our biggest problem with shooting is the cost and now some person because they think it may be time for another rule change has bought this one in.
the cost to become or stay competitive would be just another burden which i just can't comprehend.
if they did what they want to and believe me they will,could you switch your barrel over after the short ranges at a queens ( target rifle).
i know i can get mine to within 3/4 of a degree ,but saying that is not something that you really want to be doing in the middle of such an important event off your elbows.
regards paul

Barry Davies
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#10 Postby Barry Davies » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:06 pm

Assuming the 6mmBR was approved---
Which projectile weight?
The only ones that compare favourably ( BC ) with the 308 are the 95gn VLD and 105 gn
Would it be restricted to those or would it be open slather for all weights?
As usual, change for the sake of change.
Got me buggered why they just don't open it up to all and sundry and kill the sport quickly, instead of slow torture.
Barry

budget
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#11 Postby budget » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:40 pm

hi barry,
i realise that change is inevitable and to move forward and prosper we must look at ways that can aid us as a movement but for heavens sake you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see this just is not a great idea.
im all but over these rule changes and are slowly getting very tired of all the tinkering thats going on.im all for good ideas but geez this ones a beauty.

PeteFox
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Location: Tas.

Re: 6 br additional calibre

#12 Postby PeteFox » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:46 pm

Rather than mucking around with TR why not TR Open for those that want to do this sort of thing.
Pete

Dave_P
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#13 Postby Dave_P » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:41 pm

"The 223 Round has not really taken off as a competitive cartridge due to perceptions and misunderstanding"..........Then maybe promote the 223 with some real world testing and highlight it's advantages and clear up the misconception as quoted in the proposal
Doing this would demonstrate a viable alternative to those seeking one without any rule changes

bruce moulds
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#14 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:44 pm

in usa they have a 308 class, a class called "any" and a class called "any/any".
any allows any calibre, but only iron sights.
any/any allows any calibre/ any sight.
other than that gun wts, trigger wts etc are the same.
these categories might be a better idea than just 6br it that path is chosen.
any/any would offer older eyes more opportunity.
with regards tradition, where do you start tradition from?
today's t.r is nothing like where it originated from.
queens prizes originally stipulated the use of the whitworth muzzle loading rifle, and the course of fire and ranges were nothing like today.
from there they went to the snider breech loader at a max of about 600 yds.
then the martini hanry at a max of 900 yds because bullets went haywire before 1000.
this is why 900yds/800m is traditionally max in t.r. still.
then the 303 with mkV1 ammo and then mkV11.
then in the latter years the 308.
that is for british commonwealth countries.
modern t.r. is now based on the palma rifle, which evolved from the American any rifle of the 1870s.
earlier palma was shot using the military rifle and ammunition of the host country.
this came about due to the Canadians cleaning up against all comers using the 280 ross, far better than the 30/40 krag and the 303 mk V11.
so when we come to tradition, it can be a bit of a personal choice where it starts.
the 308 is a dinosaur in its own right, being the last of a breed designed to make an infantry rifle capable against cavalry.
possibly if one new cartridge was introduced, it could be the 6.5 creedmoor.
arguably better barrel life than the 6br and better in the wind.
both it and the 6br are cheaper to load generally than the 308.
both are better at 1000 yds than the 308 with palma bullets, so no need to change barrels.
should this get more bums on seats, it might actually save traditional tr by keeping it as an appendix.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

bsouthernau
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Re: 6 br additional calibre

#15 Postby bsouthernau » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:53 pm

Dave_P wrote:"The 223 Round has not really taken off as a competitive cartridge due to perceptions and misunderstanding"..........Then maybe promote the 223 with some real world testing and highlight it's advantages and clear up the misconception as quoted in the proposal
Doing this would demonstrate a viable alternative to those seeking one without any rule changes


Exactly the point I was trying to make in my earler post. I rarely shoot either TR or F Std these days so my opinion doesn't count for much but I can't see the need for another cartridge.

Barry


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