Barriers to joining

[rabbitz]

I have been toying with the idea of getting into F-Class for a while. Last Saturday I wandered down to the range at Hornsby to have a look and see what it is all about.

I wandered into one of the club-houses and was pleased to be welcomed in a very friendly and helpful manner - so far so good.

I spent the following few hours on the mound watching what was going on and generally learning quite a lot. (700m is a long way)

After the shoot everyone returned to the clubhouse and sat around crapping on as most shooters will.

I left feeling positive and looking forward to getting involved. Once I got home I did the maths:

Club and association memberships - $360 p.a.
Range fees $11 x 24 visits (i.e. twice a month) $264 p.a.
Ammo $24 x24 (using the supplied ammo) $576

So $1200 p.a. before I even think about a rifle, scope, mat, rest, jacket, gunsmithing, fuel etc etc.

This has pretty much put me out of the game.

I believe that the costs involved are a major barrier to new growth in the sport. What can be done? I have no idea as I am an outsider but compared to other sports and activities I believe that this form of shooting is at a disadvantage right from the start.

As I have said I was very impressed with the club, the members and the shooting, so don't take this as someone who is bagging the sport, I am not. I am just offering this opinion in the hope it is of use to the administrators.

Regards
Colin Warren

[John E]

Colin,
we all know that nothing in life is free, and if we can't afford to participate in an activity, then we don't.
Any other form of shooting sport is a lot more expensive than target rifle shooting --- just try clay bird shooting , for example.
The fees you quote are considerably higher than what I pay at my club. My annual sub is $150, the daily range fee is $5, and we each shoot 4 x 10 shot shoots every Saturday, which, after we have reloaded our own ammo, costs about $25, so my Saturday entertainment costs me $30 plus an average of $3 for the annual subscription. Pretty good value, I reckon.
John

[balcom]

I have been toying with the idea of getting into F-Class for a while. Last Saturday I wandered down to the range at Hornsby to have a look and see what it is all about.

I wandered into one of the club-houses and was pleased to be welcomed in a very friendly and helpful manner - so far so good.

I spent the following few hours on the mound watching what was going on and generally learning quite a lot. (700m is a long way)

After the shoot everyone returned to the clubhouse and sat around crapping on as most shooters will.

I left feeling positive and looking forward to getting involved. Once I got home I did the maths:

Club and association memberships - $360 p.a.
Range fees $11 x 24 visits (i.e. twice a month) $264 p.a.
Ammo $24 x24 (using the supplied ammo) $576

So $1200 p.a. before I even think about a rifle, scope, mat, rest, jacket, gunsmithing, fuel etc etc.

This has pretty much put me out of the game.

I believe that the costs involved are a major barrier to new growth in the sport. What can be done? I have no idea as I am an outsider but compared to other sports and activities I believe that this form of shooting is at a disadvantage right from the start.

As I have said I was very impressed with the club, the members and the shooting, so don't take this as someone who is bagging the sport, I am not. I am just offering this opinion in the hope it is of use to the administrators.

Regards
Colin Warren

Your yearly costs is what it cost me to drive to Darwin in fuel only to shoot at one meeting, Queens!, when you take it seriously it costa about $20K per year.
PeterH

[RAVEN]

Hi rabbitz
this is a good observation but you need to compare it to other hobbies and entertainment.
I fish and this can be as cheap or expensive as you want it to be
Last weekend I went to Vic to fish 3 days it cost $450 we eat cheaply and I was tenting it.
add to that 4 rods @ $250 each 4 X reels @ 300each 4 X fishing line @ $100 per reel all my lures god knows how much they are worth wouldn't want to add it up to scary
Boat thousands $$$$
and on and on

the hole point is if you enjoy your chosen sport or hobby you will participate in it and it will cost you but this is 4 sure you cant take the $$$$ with you when we go to that big rifle range in the sky.

My advice is be part of what you enjoy doing and work your way up a bit at a time.
Cheers
RB

[mike H]

Hello Rabbitz,
I think I can undesrstand your position. I am retired now, and spending the childrens inheretance.When we were younger, and with a growing family, a lot of shooting activities were curtailed. I still managed some shooting, but it was on a tight budget. Looking back, the family, was worth the pain. Costs in a city enviroment are enormous, For country people, they are too, it is the travelling costs. One thing that always surprises me though, is the number of local people, that don`t support their Qeens shoot. I would say get into it, pay whatever fees are neccessary, try and shoot when you can, don`t be worried if you are not on the range all the time. Your time will come.

Whilst it is great to have the top line gear, don`t let it worry you , if you do not. You can enjoy yourself, with basic equipment. Remember you are in this for the long haul, If every year, you pick up something better, that you think will help, it will all add up.

It is hard to put it in words, but the people you meet in shooting, are priceless. Enjoy the time you have with them.
Mike.

[Woody_rod]

Mike H, they are good words of encouragement.

I started out with modest gear, some borrowed, some bought from the club as second, thrid or fourth hand. I just wanted to get involved.

Right from the outset, I wanted to reload - this is a major saving over the course of a year, especially if you shoot any major competitions. I reckon I save at least $700-800 a year just in ammo, others would be vastly more. 4-5 years shooting, you can buy a decent rifle with the savings.

RAVEN's example of comparing sports is a good one, I oftne use fishing as my example for people in the same way:

Small boat = $10,000
Fishing gear = $1,000
Petrol for one year = $2,500 ($50 per weekend average)
Travelling costs = ????

Rifle shooting is CHEAP!!!

Incidentally, I spend more money over the bar each year than my rifle, ammo and travelling costs!!! Maybe I have a different problem!!!

[VickiMcc]

dont they have a club rifle u can use and mats can be borrowed, and bullets can be bought cheaper

regards vicki

[ned kelly]

G'Day rabbitz,
PM stu_bear as he is building a budget FS rifle.......you might be surprised
Cheerio Ned

same Ned as AV forum

[rabbitz]

Thanks for the input.

I think some of you might have mis-interpreted my intent.

I actually have a rifle, scope. mat etc etc. So these costs are immaterial to me.

What I was trying to say is that the start up costs can (and do) make people shy away. For example it seems to me that, in this case, the club & association membership costs are quite high ($360 + $11).

When I compare it other club and association fees:
SSAA - $70 + $20ish
NSWSARAI + Local Club (Smallbore) - $120 + $5
Bowling Club - $55
SOPA (Archery) - $250 includes yearly range fees.

I understand that shooting can be an expensive hobby, I have been competing for 30+ years in different disciplines. It just makes me wonder if F-Class (well at the Hornsby range anyway) is pricing itself out of the ability to gather new membership.

A slug of $360 just to be a member is quite steep, a suggestion, without knowing all the facts, would be to amortise this over time by charging a higher range fee.

I hope this make more sense now.

Colin

[RAVEN]

I agree with what you are saying Rabbitz
I read on the UK F-Class site some were that the membership went up when the fees came down or it was the other way around wish I could find the page to show you.
Cheers
RB

[AlanF]

...A slug of $360 just to be a member is quite steep...

Colin,

At my club this figure is $160 VRA and $25 Club per annum i.e about half of yours. Range fees are $50 per annum for unlimited visits, which is a fraction of yours. Plus we have significant reductions in all those amounts for new and junior shooters.

So yes by our standards your fees are steep. I'd imagine the NSWRA wouldn't be much higher than the VRA, so it would seem to be the club and range that are the culprits. I would get a copy of the annual financial statements and see where the money is being spent.

You probably can't do much about that of course, but, recently at our range we have been very successful in getting Shire and State Govt grants for capital improvements, maintenance and equipment. We even managed to get $2500 to buy a 6BR club rifle! This is an excellent way for clubs and ranges to keep their fees low. Perhaps you could suggest this strategy to the relevant committees?

Alan

[rabbitz]

Hi Alan

From what I gather the annual fee structure contains components from:

Range Maintenance Levy
North Shore District Association (Who "own" the range)
NSWRA
NRAA
Club

Apparently the club component is ~ $75.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the club or the associations are ripping anyone off. I am merely making the observation that as a sport shooting (in all forms) needs to be working at attracting members and I thought that it was worth mentioning that I found this to be a barrier. It appears that this may be a local issue rather than a discipline wide one.

Believe me when I say I understand the difficulties associations and club committees face, I've been on a club committee for more than 20 years, as well as being the captain of a struggling club. So I am trying to be constructive.

Will I join up now? At the present moment there is no way I could eke out a spare $400, which is a pity as I live about 10 minutes from the range.

Will I eventually join up? Probably, if other commitments don't get in the way.

By the way I have deliberately not named the club as I don't want to imply that this particular club is the problem.

Colin

[Ben F]

Colin,
Shooting at Hornsby is expensive compared to shooting with the SSAA but the alternatives for F CLASS shooters are drive to Gosford to save on membership. Go to Malabar (which I beleive do not shoot on open targets or drive to Southern Highlands. If you take fuel and time into account it is still cheaper to shoot at Hornsby.

If you compare $360 a year with most Sydney golf courses which was my choice of sport for many years shooting is cheap

I did not miss the point about the administatration costs but as Hornsby is used by multiple clubs a range managemet body also requires a fee as the rent on the site to the government is considerable and we are require to pay to club,range manager & NWSRA.