Something Needs to be Done

[Brad Y]

I will put it on Ausvarmint forums now as well.

[Razer]

Couple of logistical questions.

Does the financial cost affect your attendance?

How close is your nearest range? and;

Does the distance you travel to the nearest range affect your attendance?

[AlanF]

Alan I expect a few comments to the poll as they can reply to the thread as well.

I intend to run a couple of further polls once this one has been going for a while. I think it is a good way to get info from people that are already interested in long range shooting but may or may not be formal target shooters.

Can you think of some questions that you would like me to put to these shooters in the form of a poll?

Yes Norm, lots.

What maximum range would you prefer to shoot targets

1. Up to 100m
2. Up to 300m
3. Up to 500m
4. Up to 1000m

What style of target shooting interests you most?

1. Prone
2. Sitting/standing
3. Bench
4. Moving target
5. Snap shooting
6. All of the above

What can you afford to pay on a weekly basis for ammunition and range fees?

1. <$20
2. $20-$30
3. $30-$40
4. $40-$50
5. >$50

There's a few if you can squeeze them in.

Thanks

Alan

[Brad Y]

Just made 4 different polls, so far a few views but no replies. Might have to make another poll for do you give thought to sport shooting in the future or do you prefer to just shoot and go home

[bruce moulds]

you guys who talk about bringing on other disciplines are beat before you start.
doing that is having a defeatist attitude. about equal to the old tr guys who say that it is all finished, lets just go down with the sinking ship while the band keeps playing.
firstly we need to have the good clubhouse facilities that barry mentions. this is first impression and constant feel.
secondly, people don't remember what you say or what you look like. they remember how you made them feel. we can all do our best to make them feel good. old and new.
thirdly, how many people know what fclass and tr , collectively described as fullbore, is really all about.
our primary goal should be to get out there and promote what we have through education. market what we have as the best there is.
last of all is a feeling of success.
if people get up off the mound with a smile on their faces due to feeling successful, they will usually seek further rewards.
keep safe,
bruce.

[bruce moulds]

when the tr guys wisely decided to invest in fclass, they knowingly or unknowingly did a clever thing.
they brought on board a discipline which could shoot alongside the existing discipline using the same target, at no more effort than was already happening other than exra marking.
of course the prize side of things had to be expanded.
this could well be what will save tr.
they didn't have to be there in the mornings or sundays to run another discipline.
what other disciplines can shoot along with what already happens?
long range black powder, cartridge or muzzle loader, can fit in if allowed the time they require. bisley style would fit in even better.
some 303 events might be able to.
what else?
if we go too far with other disciplines, our culture will be corrupted and we will lose what we are all about. we could even destroy the goose that laid the golden egg..
keep safe,
bruce.

[AlanF]

Bruce,

Like you, I find current situation quite comfortable : F-Open is growing, we finally have a team going to the FCWC, my own range is reasonably easy to manage with not too many members and the hassle that causes, and I can go to the range virtually whenever I like for load testing, because its unlikely anyone else will be there.

But the way things are going at prizemeetings and clubs around Vic generally, I don't think we can afford to wait the time it will take to improve the fortunes of the current classes as you are advocating. Compared to TR, F-Class is going very well, but the overall numbers are falling. I agree we can do a lot of things better, but the money and effort is the obstacle, particularly at small clubs. Like most of whom I call "the few", the ones who keep the clubs and ranges going, I would far rather be shooting than administrating - if I wanted to be an administrator I would get a paid job as one. We have this problem of a high average age compared with most sports. That makes it quite hard to change attitudes, and drum up enthusiasm, but as you say we should not give up on this. Every improvement will help.

I think we should develop another class based closely on what the market wants, and run that on a weekly basis as we do with TR and F-Class. Its format, equipment specs and rules could be a compromise between what our membership will accept on the range, and what the market wants. If it was run at a different time than TR and F-Class, then the main change from the current situation would be the need to time share the range and facilities. The new class could look after itself in terms of targets, range officers etc.

In my opinion this would be a more effective and easier way of ensuring the future of ranges and our class of shooting, than trying to get more effort out of the current membership. The new blood would bring new enthusiasm and capability, and some could be expected to migrate to F-Class or TR from the new class.

Alan

[Barry Davies]

I believe too much emphasis is placed on trying to recruit the younger generation -- like under 18's. The world offers too much in competition for us to be anywhat successful in this regard.
Better to direct one's energies to the over 30's and older. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an ageing membership --for one thing it's far more stable and reliable.
Barry

[DannyS]

Hi Alan, sorry, but I dont quite agree with you. Fine, have a different class, we allow sporting rifles at Hamilton but we all shoot side by side. New shooters learn from us older ones.

And slowly we are starting ti convert them.

Ask Adam Davies how many bipods I have got from him.

If you segregate a new discipline too much, you may just find that they will thrive and we will go down the TR route.

Cheers
Danny

[bruce moulds]

alan,
i will make 2 points.
firstly, in the real world, who is going to commit to organizing, going to the range to run, hot cold wet, windy, every once a week, having the targets ready, all the scoring, paperwork and stats, and all the other things necessary to start a new discipline.
based on the fact that most clubs can't even do basic upkeep now, i would say very few people.
secondly,we have never really committed to an education and promotion of the current product, so we can't say it won't work.
if i go to non fullbore ranges and talk fclass, other shooters don't even know what i am talking about. some think you have to lie in the dirt and it will hurt their backs, and they are the most knowledgable.
i suppose these points could be elaborated upon by saying that direct and effective policies of welcoming and inclusion have yet to be perfected generally throughout our movement.
there are 2 groups from whom we ccn hope to glean members, shooters and non shooters. both need to be handled differently.
i know of 2 clubs that do get members from running another discipline. one is at barcaldine, and one is at port pirie.
what thy have in common is that they shoot at 100 & 200, alleviating the need for markers.
they also allow factory only rifles, and will not allow those who try to bend things, e.g. using a rebarrelled savage fclass rifle. they use big targets so that ordinary rifles can be seen to achieve.
of course shooting off the ground is a precursor to our disciplines.
keep safe,
bruce.

[AlanF]

I believe too much emphasis is placed on trying to recruit the younger generation -- like under 18's. The world offers too much in competition for us to be anywhat successful in this regard.
Better to direct one's energies to the over 30's and older. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an ageing membership --for one thing it's far more stable and reliable.
Barry

Agreed, 40s and 50s are probably the best prospects for us to target as members. When I said high average age, at our range last Saturday for example it was 68.

[bruce moulds]

alan,
fortunately the movement has a few young blokes, like you and me.
if only we had the experience of some of the oldies, to go with our impetuous youth.
keep safe,
bruce.

[IanP]

Discussion is always a good thing and ideas are generated. Then after the enthusiasm for doing the easy work, (talking about it) is exhausted then comes the bit that counts, which is getting it done.

To get it done, generally those with the loudest voices suddenly disappear into the back ground. The few that then contribute to actually physically doing the work are then subject to the criticism of the loud and vocal, but do nothing group. I put to the people involved in this useful discussion, what are you going to contribute to getting it done?

F-Class has a bright future as far as I can see, as long as we start to bring the antiquated infrastructure up to date. As I have said elsewhere we need safe and people friendly rifle ranges. We need shelter and toilets, we need electronic targets and we need to recognise world standard F-Class competition. To me this means getting F-Open to use ICFRA rules, (easily accomplished) and leaving our domestic F-Standard as it is now. It also involves bringing in F T/R nation wide across Australia and using the existing ICFRA rules. F T/R as I have said elsewhere is a no-brainer decision to make and should be implemented this year.

What will I do as an individual member is as follows...

1. Look at what the best and most economical/practical way to provide shelter for shooters and spectators.

2. Look at the practical implementation of composting toilets for use on rifle ranges.

3. Attend the upcoming ET day at Mt Barker Rifle Range and look to getting the committee of my club to start a ET future fund.

4. Promote F-Class as a worthwhile sport to any interested parties I come across.

5. Suggest to the NRAA thru my local FCASA that we need ICFRA rules for F-O and we need to push for F T/Rs inclusion into our SSRs.

6. I will be an advocate to leave F-Standard as an Australian domestic F-Class competition.

What will you do?

Ian

[Cameron Mc]

I believe too much emphasis is placed on trying to recruit the younger generation -- like under 18's. The world offers too much in competition for us to be anywhat successful in this regard.
Better to direct one's energies to the over 30's and older. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having an ageing membership --for one thing it's far more stable and reliable.
Barry

Your right Barry, that is what we have found.

Cameron

[AlanF]

I think we all agree that it would be a very big task to reverse the decline in TR numbers. Its far easier to save our clubs and ranges by promoting F-Class to new shooters, and building numbers that way. TR will benefit because ranges that might otherwise close are still available to them, albeit with reduced numbers to compete against. Why is this a better strategy than putting a big effort into promoting TR? Because F-Class clearly has more appeal for most new shooters than TR, and it is easier to attract and keep new members with F-Class. Agreed? Now, let's apply that same idea to ensure the future survival of F-Class i.e. devise a class which has even greater general appeal than F-Class. Build up the numbers, keep our ranges, keep F-Class exactly as it is now. Improve the way we run F-Class by all means, but build the numbers the quickest way by giving the market what it wants in the form of a new class. In Vic we need to act quickly.

Alan