F-class is an advanced discipline. $ stops new shooters

[Amac]

Hi All

Denis I never got a chance to discuss this on Saturday but great work here. I too have been racking the brain box thinking of ways of increasing membership or how we can get increased usage from our range. We have a few issues to overcome in Bundy but we do have a large number of younger guys shooting at the SSAA that would be interested in something different. By something different - not a specialised field like FTR or F Open.

I've been thinking about a varmint class or something like that. Shot out to say 400 or 500 yards with weight restrictions on the projectiles and types of rifles and equipment to be used. Factory classes also spring to mind in a modified open type class.

At the end of the day though we may end up with a number of different disciplines along the way and I do believe they need to be tailored to the individuals range. Certainly piggyback off others efforts in terms of set up but as long as we work within the range rules and the club is supporting it then I think we need to move forward.

Future proofing our sport is the key here. You will get movement across into the F1 of the sport if these types of activities are commenced. The outlay for a new competitor is very high. You might also wish to add in another $1500 for reloading gear too. There are only so many that are prepared to commit those types of funds to a sport. Those that are on this forum have the bug and understand the outlay and are comfortable with it.

I look forward to seeing what can be developed from this thread. I will be looking to commence something - with the good graces of my Club committee in the new year.

Cheers

Andrew

[DenisA]

Thanks everyone for your encouraging words. Admittedly, when I posted this thread I was uncertain of how well it would be received and honestly expected a lot of criticism. Its very encouraging to see that these sentiments resonate through the whole community to some extent.

Norm, for a discipline that would shoot with us on a club day basis, I think that any weight limits should be generous and the rules in general should be liberal. There are lots of guys with practical rifles running short to medium length heavy barrels in heavy chassis' with heavy scopes. It would be a real step in the wrong direction to exclude those comfortable spending lots of money on what they enjoy who currently don't have a class.

The type of system that I have in mind that would only be run with club shoots and would not have part in PM's could maybe divided into classes. Eg, practical, varmint and hunter. The shooter nominates. There could be common rules such as the strict use of a folding bipod and maybe a weight limit of rear bag etc.

One of the problems with F-open now is that it's not actually open anymore. You pretty much have to be running one of a few common setups and cartridges to be competitive which forces extra cost on to those that want to compete in it.
I'm not complaining but I can see where the discipline has shot itself in the foot.

Less confining rules for a less formal discipline would mean more fun for more members.

[DenisA]

I hope every one can look past my Laymanship when it comes to these things but I have very little experience with club formalities.

At my next club AGM if I could approach the committee and club with something similar to what I've thrown together below however better thought out by a number of advocates, then I'd be confident in the proposal. If I knew others were taking the same proposal to their AGM, I'd feel like it was definitely the right thing to do.

MOTION:
To encourage assimilation between SSAA members and ___________ Rifle Club.

MISSION STATEMENT
The goal of this proposal is to encourage the growth of the rifle club and current F-class disciplines through an introductory process that allows a gradual financial commitment and immediate competitive involvement using the shooters current equipment.

PROCESS:
• Approach the SSAA committee and offer reciprocal rates
• Design a competition that suits a vast range of rifles that are commonly used on SSAA ranges
• Allow the use of muzzle brakes on one side of the range. (Squadded??)
• The competition would not be included in prize meetings but would be run in conjunction with weekly club shoots.
• Produce and manage a Facebook page (free) to advertise and encourage the competition.

TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC:
• Currently licensed shooters who have experience with firearms and safety procedures, understand basic principles of tuning and handloading ammunition and wish to increase there knowledge and ability.
• Practical rifle shooters
• Varmint rifle shooters
• Hunting rifle shooters (5 shot matches)?

COMPETITION DESCRIPTION:
• ????????????????????

[aaronraad]

Denis,

Good post, and thank you for your efforts in trying to grow your membership. I too have put considerable thought into this problem, and think there is one key realisation that most clubs and associations would benefit from. In general OUR BEST PROSPECTS FOR NEW MEMBERS COME FROM MEN AGED AT LEAST MID-FORTIES. They have usually had past experience with rifles, and often with NRAA affiliated ranges via their fathers, uncles etc. This type of person is the most likely to join a club and stick at it because they are genuinely attracted to the unique character of F-Class. Notice I said men, and you might say we have reasonable numbers of women shooting. But from my observations, most women in F-Class would probably not be doing it independently of their partner. A similar thing can be said about young shooters. Most start out coming with their parent(s), and only a few stick around through their twenties and thirties. But the core strength of our membership is men in their 50s 60s and 70s. So what can we do about it? Well in my opinion, what's the problem with being dominated by a particular age group and gender? Most other sports are that way. Rather than spending time and effort trying to attract young people, why not recognise that they are more likely to be attracted to other forms of shooting, and concentrate our F-Class recruiting efforts on the 50s plus age group, where we'll get a better return on investment. By all means encourage young people to come and have a go, and plant the seeds for them to possibly return later in life.

In relation to other forms of target shooting which will attract more of the 20s to 40s age group, this is where we need to push our associations to be more flexible. I agree with your listed points Denis. We need to either modify Field Class or tailor a new class which is attractive to varmint/hunting/tactical rifles. If we don't do something now, while we have control over most of the long distance ranges around Australia, then we will continue to lose our ranges through lack of use.

Alan

Based on that description of the demographic there is a catchy tune that could work...

"I'm looking for a range other than my SSAA, other than my SSAA. The NRAA is right!"

Might have to tighten security around membership personal details on the NRAA website though.

[Norm]

COMPETITION DESCRIPTION:
• ????????????????????

Practical - F-Class


The term "Practical" is already used in a lot of other disciplines that run similar rifles.

[Tim N]

So at the ripe old age of 49 I would be considered a junior member

[AlanF]

So at the ripe old age of 49 I would be considered a junior member

Seriously, at many clubs, yes. At Rosedale, apart from a few sons/daughters accompanying parents, there might be a couple of under 50s. Part of the reason is of course that serious competition takes a lot of time, and many in their 20s to 40s put their sport down the priority list. They are the ones we find have a reasonable chance of coming back once family demands reduce. So the idea is to encourage the younger people to have a go, e.g by giving them an accurate club rifle to use, and it'll give them some fond memories of the sport for when they weigh up their leisure options later in life. But its also very important to recognise who are the most likely members to stick around after they join - its us oldies .

[johnk]

It's not only the disposable income, available time & the reduced family responsibilities, it's the toughness to land in a sport that generally doesn't reward participation - just success - and to front up to the political reality of being a punching bag for politicians & the media.

[AlanF]

....a sport that generally doesn't reward participation - just success

Do you have any ideas about how it could better reward participation John?

[DenisA]

COMPETITION DESCRIPTION:
• ????????????????????

Practical - F-Class


The term "Practical" is already used in a lot of other disciplines that run similar rifles.

That seems to be the right name for it Norm.

Here's a mock up of what the rules could be to merge these kinds of rifles with F-class. There's so much with practical and hunting that I know nothing about as I do neither so suggestions would be great. I will submit this at my Next AGM.

What do you guys think of reciprocal range fees between clubs?

Practical - F-Class
2 classes. Practical / Varmint and hunter

Practical / Varmint

Any cartridge 8mm and under governed by range restrictions
2 convertible sighters and 10 scoring shots, 2 details
Based on F-class scoring system
Must be repeater action (single round loading unless otherwise stated)
Folding bipod and/or sling allowed (no FTR style bi-pods or pedestal rests)
Max weight 12 kg (what does a heavy tactical setup weigh?)
Maximum rear bag weight 1.5 kg
Monopods permitted
No trigger restrictions
Muzzle brakes permitted


Hunter

Any cartridge 8mm and under governed by range restrictions
2 convertible sighters and 5 scoring shots, 3 details
Based on F-class scoring system
Must be repeater action (single round loading unless otherwise stated)
Folding bipod and/or sling allowed (no FTR style bi-pods or pedestal rests)
Max weight 6 kg (what do average hunting rifles weigh?)
No rear bag
Minimum 1 kg trigger weight
No muzzle brake

[Anthony]

I think this is a cool idea.
a lot of people are put off shooting Fclass due to not wanting to buy a dedicated rifle.
I run a rifle that would fit in well to this "practical class" in F-Standard and do ok but wouldn't expect to win much with it which can be discouraging.


In some ways this class would tie in well with the new practical comps like the match being held at castlemaine this sunday and others being planned for SSAA ranges.

[AlanF]

Denis,

I think 12Kg would be way too heavy for tactical/varmint. Probably somewhere around the 8Kg would be more like it.

[DenisA]

Nice rifle Anthony. I'd love to see these things in action on the long range.

Your probably right Alan, but in the interest of trying to include everyone the bar needs to be set high. Would 8kg allow for a NXS or S&B, 24 - 26" bull barrel, AI or KRG chassis, Atlas bi-pod, atlas mono pod, front grip, all the stuff that these guys want.

I've often heard shooters talking about some of these rifles saying that they wouldn't make weight for F-class. I just don't know what they weigh.

What's yours weigh Anthony.

Would a class like practical varmint shot only at club level even need a weight limit. Why not leave the weight limit unrestricted?

[AlanF]

Denis,

With the calibre limit of 8mm, and possible 3500ft-lb energy limit, that rules out Barrets and the like which are made heavy to handle the 338 Lap etc. Most factory tactical rifles weigh less than 5.5Kg bare, so you could add a scope, rings, bipod and mono pod and easily make 8Kg. Maybe 9Kg would be safer to include all likely contenders.

If there is competition at any level, probably best to have a weight limit?

Alan

[johnk]

Do you have any ideas about how it could better reward participation John?

Shoot the discipline on a TR target?