Dropping Long Ranges from Events

[Norm]

I can't understand any F-Class shooter not wanting to shoot 1000 yards.

I have shot in Long Range F-Class events with the Match Rifle boys and it was great fun. Shooting at 1000, 1100 and 1200 yards add so much to the experience. Sure the scores are lower, but they are lower for most people. You can loose a heap of points at one distance but just as easily pick them up again at the next. The leads change regularly and this adds to the excitement of the competition.

To drop 1000 yards from regular F-Class events will be to turn the sport into a mid range sport and it will loose its appeal to those that truly enjoy the challenge of long range shooting.

[johnk]

See you at Stawell?

[AlanF]

...I seriously doubt any f classers would push for 1000yds to be dropped- it seems to be a notion brought up by what I would stereotype as a typical disgruntled TR shooter who may be getting on in age and having trouble seeing that far, that doesnt like ET's, is against F class shooters...

I think my initial comments may have triggered some F-Class vs TR resentment, and I apologise for putting it in those terms. Brad I've come across a number of F-Class shooters who would fit most of your above description. Both you and Norm say you'd be surprised if F-Classers would want to drop 1000. Its notable that the 3 of us are F-Open shooters using high BC bullets. Some F-Std and TR shooters are running loads that are barely supersonic at 1000, and even if they don't realise it, that's probably a major part of their problem. Other than to encourage them to up their loads and/or change projectiles, there's not a lot we can do about their desire to avoid 900m/1000yds.

Alan

[Brad Y]

Easy Alan... give them an invitation to the DARK SIDE

[Barry Davies]

Not against 1000 yd but agree with what Alan said with respect to TR and FS shooters.
Being able to shoot 1000 yd whenever ( Bendigo ) I can assure all that getting an FS rifle to shoot it well is difficult simply because the 155.s we are limited to are not good enough unless you steam them at 3000 f/s plus.
The other problem with 1000yds is that there are very few ranges with this capability making it difficult for those who never shoot 1000 yds to come to terms with it. You have to shoot it regularly to be comfortable with it.
As a result of this I believe there are many who do not consider it good fun to be blown to hell and back at 1000yds, and therefore stay home.
Call them whimps or whatever you like, but the fact remains,and name calling is not going to encourage them to shoot 1000yds.

[Hangfire]

Its notable that the 3 of us are F-Open shooters using high BC bullets. Some F-Std and TR shooters are running loads that are barely supersonic at 1000, and even if they don't realise it, that's probably a major part of their problem. Other than to encourage them to up their loads and/or change projectiles, there's not a lot we can do about their desire to avoid 900m/1000yds.

Alan

Another reason to take up F/TR or Open.

[Brad Y]

Barry- I can understand people do not want to be blown about at 1000yds. But thats the nature of the sport. The wind blows and you have to read it. And not everyone can, but practice makes perfect and if your a serious competitor and want to attend a prize shoot, surely you attempt to travel to a place that can shoot it? We drive to Perth a couple of times a year to practice 1000yds at swanbourne just for the sake of trying to do well in the queens. I work fulltime and have a 1yr old at home and still managed to do it. Anything is possible.

A couple of points I want to add into the discussion.

1. The ability to get to 1000yds supersonic a couple of years ago was less with poorer BC bullet's approved. The 2155 sierra, 155 amax and the 155 nosler if I am correct. But it only seems the call for 1000yds to be dropped is happening now after we have bullets with better BC available. There is no sense in that. A 30 inch barrel 223 or 308 should be fine at reaching 1000yds. I believe most of them do get there supersonic as Ive yet to hear see a bullet arrive at 1000yds on a manual target that hasnt cracked through like it should. The NRAA has set up FS so that shooters have to be able to shoot 1000yds and the shooter chooses to run in that division. So its not 1000yds being the problem in my eyes. If your gun aint working it needs to be sorted out so it works! You wouldnt take up baseball with a garden glove would you?

2. You dont hear of overseas competitors calling for no 1000yds shooting when they use 155's so I dont see why it is a problem for us. Im on alot of shooting forums over the world and havent seen it.

3. The technology is there and so are the resources for people to test their loads to ensure they will be supersonic to 1000yds. Why isnt it being used? We talk and share so much information on here about loads, but obviously there either isnt enough shooters reading these forums or they are "in their own little bubble" about load development. No reason why clubs cant fundraise if need be and spend money on a magnetospeed that can be used to get velocities and tune loads. And within clubs there should be enough sharing of information to help people out. If there isnt, there is something fundamentally wrong in my eyes.

I can see some people dont like 1000yds and ok its a personal choice, but technically, the only thing limiting TR and FS from shooting 1000yds successfully is the shooter themselves.

[Barry Davies]

With due respects,
Why is it when a discussion about any shooting subject takes place on this forum, the why's and wherefore's of overseas shooters is mentioned?
What we do domestically in this country should not be influenced by what the overseas shooters think or do.
First and foremost we should consider our domestic competitions and to that end if more shooters attend because of some change in the format then that has to be good for the overall health of our sport. ( locally )
I know and appreciate that 1000 yards and beyond is shot internationally, but in all honesty how many shooters in this country does that affect? Certainly not the rank and file.
The technology that Brad mentions is certainly available but the majority of shooters ( both TR and FC ) cannot be bothered with it --all they want to do is go shooting with an equal chance.
There is no way we are going to make super shooters out of the vast majority --that's why you always see the same names in the winners list. That's why there is grading!!
Force this international stuff onto those who don't want it ( the majority ) and suddenly you have a problem.

[Bindi2]

With due respects,

Force this international stuff onto those who don't want it ( the majority ) and suddenly you have a problem.

Ask James Corbet what ranges he had to shoot to win Bisley.
There is one state in Australia where the Association supplies support for club purpose only. This means club,state, national and international avenues. Remove one of those planks and the support is weakened and you wont see another Aussie win Bisley. The international stage may not be everyones forte but it is part of the platform for goverment funding which comes in many forms.
So becareful what you wish for the loss maybe greater than the gain.

Brad
The new toy is now in my safe.

[Peter Hulett]

When I first started shooting TR my home range only went back to 700 yards. Carol and I were the only members of our club who went to Williamstown because "900 yards is just impossible there".
We still shoot TR and we love having a crack at 1000. Sometimes I get carted all over the board and sometimes it just works and you nail it. My own range is pretty tough and a lot of the old guys don't like to shoot 900 metres as they can get bad scores. Our new shooters look forward to the challenge but complain that we do not shoot it often enough.

As regards TR vs F-Class I nailed a 50.5 at 900 metres at Geelong a few weeks ago and there is no F-Class shooter who has ever got close to that on our range.

I agree that the people complaining about 1000 yard shoots are in the main older shooters who are a bit worried about getting a hiding. The young shooters are still in it for the challenge and will have a go just as we were prepared to do some 30+ years ago when we turned up at Williamstown.

We keep having the same arguments. Last time we went through this it was with the ICFRA targets and how they were going to destroy the sport. My casual observations show that the sport is at least as strong now as it was then and that overall we are attracting a younger group of shooters.

[SENDIT]

YOUR JOKING. Where the hell did this thread come from, I have been under the assumption , Ozfclass was a long range shooters forum not the indoor air rifle forum. 1000yds thats the warm up for coonas 1500 as for too hard when windy...suck it up princess.you get what you get on the day, rain hail or shine. UN F#$×#€G BELIEVABLE.

[Brad Y]

Bindi- about time! I know mine is approved, but waiting for the postman to bring me some happy news. Though Im going on holidays on friday for nearly 2 weeks so its going to have to wait til I get home anyway...

[Bindi2]

YOUR JOKING. Where the hell did this thread come from, I have been under the assumption , Ozfclass was a long range shooters forum not the indoor air rifle forum. 1000yds thats the warm up for coonas 1500 as for too hard when windy...suck it up princess.you get what you get on the day, rain hail or shine. UN F#$×#€G BELIEVABLE.

The noise is from some TR shooters. Enough said. (good quote )
Wish we had 1500yds available in the west.

[SENDIT]

Last time we went to coona, they had a quick poll at the 1500 mound. The question was who wants to shoot a mile if we build the mound. Everybody that was there put there hand up.just proves that those who really want to shoot long range will be at long range events

[higginsdj]

In my novice view, there is only 1 reason to remove long range (on the day) and that is safety - when the wind is so strong the range risks losing targets (and markers).

Here in Canberra we rarely shoot 900m. It's a bit difficult in some wind conditions because we have a couple of big gum tree's we have to shoot around. Attendance is always low on those days.....

From my very short time in this sport I have noticed that people seem to make decisons directly related to how it will affect their scores. ie if it looks like their scores could take a dive then the vote is "No". I've only shot 900 twice and 1000y (at Bendigo) once and I loved it. No different to any other range - you get in position, you judge the wind as best you can then pull the trigger - repeat. How is that any different to any other distance? (I'm a TR shooter but getting my wife involved in the sport via F Class)

Cheers

David