2-3 shots for clean barrel to settle down?

[DaveMc]

I wouldn't favour that. I've spent considerable time developing a procedure that results in my barrels being acceptably clean and capable of maintaining group, so I reckon it is one of the necessary skills, like wind judgment...

Fair comment John. Without asking you for details, does it work for all barrels?

Fair comments from both - My point of view is I have a couple of barrels that shoot well and are very predictable on cold bore shot (whether fouled or not) and have developed a system to make them work from shot 1 like John. I also have a couple in the cupboard that are pigs for 5-8 shots on a clean barrel - they don't come out in a Queens but I will prefoul for a prize meeting (single day). For those that only want to buy one barrel and are unfortunate enough to get one that takes a few to settle then I see the current "no fouling shots" system as a very unfair state of play and disadvantages some of the shooters on a lower budget (no matter what techniques they develop). This results in some shooters cleaning at the end of the day and racing over to the zero range and/or nearby ranges to foul the barrels - it is happening anyway so why not allow it in the rules??

[RAVEN]

I do agree with John
I train to deal with the first cold bore shot
In Brisbane 2013 I would drive to the range past the blow off range every morning and see ppl banging out their fowlers I thought to myself maybe I should be doing that then I thought no I don't need to I have confidence in getting my first busness shot in the six ring.

I consider myself at a definite advantage
because when all those ppl that were foaming at the mouth to get their blow off shots done before they shoot can't do that tell me what happens when they go to a rifle range like lower light or Wellsford where they don't have a blow off range???

I did like the fowling sessions in Raton maybe make it mandatory that all state ranges have a blow off areas.

[AlanF]

...This results in some shooters cleaning at the end of the day and racing over to the zero range and/or nearby ranges to foul the barrels...

Not always at ranges either...

[johnk]

So far, Alan.

[AlanF]

The ability to manage the cold bore shot is important for hunters and snipers. Should it be a key skill requirement for us? If so, then why not keep it simple by having no sighters? Otherwise, lets have the number of fouler/sighters we need to keep things equitable.

[johnk]

lets <snip> keep things equitable.

So how do we handicap those with better loading & tuning skills, or wind judgement, or superior equipment........?

No, we've chosen to enter a sport with a tradition of two sighters and an ethos that you need to get your s**t together within two shots. If we can't manage with two, let's shoot on 1000 yard benchrest, for example, where you have unlimited ranging shots.

John

PS: Keep it coming, Alan. This is fun & does really need to be thought through.

[RAVEN]

The ability to manage the cold bore shot is important for hunters and snipers

Alan and us because we only get 2 sighters

[AlanF]

I think the "tradition" is probably the main argument in favour of two sighters, but then F-Open had 3 up till 2007 remember.

Regarding equity John, here are my reasons for saying that :

• I believe that some barrels need multiple fouling shots to perform, period. He with many barrels has an advantage.
• Local shooters often have ready access to places they can do foulers e.g. their backyard or a mate's rural property.
• Some shooters will use the zero range for foulers, others with higher principles will not.

So there are 3 categories of shooters who can be advantaged : Wealthy, local, and unprincipled! You might see one or two at your next Queens .

Alan

[johnk]

So you do agree, Alan, that the shooters with the better equipment should be brought back into the field? And should tradition be dispensed with because some can't manage the skill of understanding the performance of their barrels when cold or cleaned?

I'll go out on a limb & say that I'm close to the conclusion that the shooters who get their barrels Hawkeye squeaky clean are the ones whose barrels take time to settle down. I work on a theory that's been expressed occasionally on various sites that "somewhat dirty" shoots uniformly, if perhaps a tad less pinpoint accurately & that can be achieved, perhaps, by cleaning procedures & perhaps by introducing friction enhancers after cleaning.

Either way, I stand by my contention that the level of barrel hygiene selected is an integral skill of our sport.

Incidentally, nobody has bothered to date to comment on this issue in conjunction with ambient temperature or barrel temperature.

[IanP]

The ability to manage the cold bore shot is important for hunters and snipers. Should it be a key skill requirement for us? If so, then why not keep it simple by having no sighters? Otherwise, lets have the number of fouler/sighters we need to keep things equitable.

I with you in this issue and it seems the shooters in the USA get a set time period to shoot (just like us) but nominate when the fired string is to count. In other words they shoot off as many foulers as required then nominate shots to score.

If I understand this correctly (big question mark) they shoot their foulers at the target. I could be wrong and the foulers are shot with the target in the pit and then the targets are raised for the sighters? Regardless of which way the unlimited foulers are shot there is not any additional time allocated for them so the shooter needs to be paying attention.

Thankfully my barrels are on target after two sighters but I would love to be able to shoot the way they manage this in the USA.

Will the Vic Queens offer a period for fouling shots prior to the start of the comp?

Ian

[DaveMc]

Ian,
We shot two methods in the US this year.

One was unlimited sighters in the US nationals (within your allocated time period) and were indeed at the target - you nominated BEFORE your first shot to count. This was on the first range of the day - then 2 sighters after that.
The other was the "blow off period" used in the first range of the day in FCWC's. This was a short (think 3 minutes??) period with targets in the pits to blow off a few foulers.

[AlanF]

Dave,

You'd agree wouldn't you that the US Nationals method would be better for us? The FCWC method would only work with relays, because you wouldn't want ad hoc fouler sessions into the stop butt during a shoot.

One thing that needs to be said about the US method is that it allows you to wait for several conditions, let go a sighter in each and learn the windage. However everyone would have that opportunity, so it is fair.

Alan

[RAVEN]

Alan the reason it’s hard to implement here is the way we are squadded
RB

[Brad Y]

Im more than happy with the current situation of 2 sighters. Like has been mentioned the first shot off a clean barrel can be taken into account. My first sighter at 900yds was shot off a clean barrel in Tasmania. I cleaned the night before only because we were down to 3 rifles for the longs and that barrel works best with no more than 4 normal ranges or around 50 shots through it. I knew to hold a minute higher for the first shot and it was an x, I held down to normal hold after that and second sighter was a low 6, from there I made no adjustments and finished with a 60 with good waterline. I know that barrel and how it works, theres no reason why anyone else cant learn that with their own gear.

My troublesome 7mm seems to take a few more shots to settle down and I do the same as Alan at the moment- clean it then burnish with moly paste before shooting moly coated bullets. Working with a magnetospeed it took 4 shots to settle into giving what I would consider a "stable velocity" reading each shot even though it still isnt tuned yet. Im not expecting that to change but wont know for a few weeks yet. I get proven wrong often with this barrel though.

[AlanF]

Alan the reason it’s hard to implement here is the way we are squadded
RB

Richard,

The US method wouldn't be a problem here. It would work exactly the same as at Raton.

Alan