Q - Can barrel length influence accuracy that much??

[Hilly-WA]

There is surely thousands of years of combined experience on these forums...

So the question is, how much difference in accuracy can be achieved with a barrel that is 24" and or right through to 30"

Can this actually be measured or quantified and what is the optimal barrel length?

Or do you run with the herd and buy a 30" barrel from the start?

Hilly

[RAVEN]

Hi Hilly
Barrel length has more to do with velocity
and nothing to do with accuracy.

Don’t want to be pedantic what would you consider to be accurate.

Cheers
RB

[Woody_rod]

Hi Hilly
Barrel length has more to do with velocity
and nothing to do with accuracy.

Don’t want to be pedantic what would you consider to be accurate.

Cheers
RB

True enough. Accuracy for me means one bullet following the last closely through the air, making them strike the target in the same spot, more or less - regardless of distance.

Longer barrels mean the bullet can go further (generally), while doing the same as above, by simply starting out faster.

[johnk]

Hilly,

Both the answers have validity, but in terms of F class out to 1000 yards, there is a relatively small range of barrel lengths for any calibre that will allow you to build ammunition within prudent load paramaters to a desirable velocity & achieve results on the target.

You speak of 30" as a norm, so I suspect that you are talking about F Standard calibres. For that discipline, you have to separate what is the target rifle norm from optically sighted rifles. TR shooters use longer barrels & sometimes bloop tubes because as a group, they are getting older & presbyotic emperatives make it easier to see the forsight when it's further away - the same way the more mature stretch the paper out to full arm's length to read it.

F class shooters don't carry that handicap, so they can choose a barrel length that better suits their requirements. Apart from the issue of achieving a suitable velocity with consistent loads, an issue of concern will be the balance of the rifle on the stand or rest. A longer thinner barrel of the TR type might take the balance further forward than a shorter heavier benchrest style barrel, but that is not necessarily the case. Anyway, the result could be beneficial rather than detrimental - it all depends on where you want & need the balance between fron & back rest to fall. In any case, a standard BR barrel isn't all that much shorter than a 30" TR barrel, so the results might be similar. As long as you have spare weight to adjust that balance, you're fine. Rifles built right on the weight limit can be a tad problimatic when it comes to fine tuning.

There's also the issue of cost & availability. Standard TR barrels are generally available in the configuration suitable for the projectiles you're likely to use. That's not necessarily the case should you want another profile or weight.

The bottom line seems to be that there is a velocity advantage in FS to use TR-derived barrels around the "standard" 29-30" long, they are available & relatively inexpensive. Most FS shooters seem to be able to incorporate them into a rig & achieve workmanlike results with them, Then again, some spectacular results have been achieved otherwise - eh, Ben? What's not worthwhile is going against the flow just to show those neanderthals that they can't think outside the box.

FO is another ballgame.

John

[RAVEN]

Hilly
Johns post is a very good explanation
If you could provide us with more info on what type of shooting with which type of firearm we could give you more specific advice.
If you are building a purpose built FS or FO rifle we can tell you what works and what doesn’t.
Cheers
RB

[AlanF]

I don't agree with the general line of advice given here. The fact is that with the fixed weight limit of F-Class rifles, then all else being equal if you have a longer barrel it will need to be thinner to make the weight limit. While I'm sure there are many exceptions, it is widely held view that a thicker barrel is both stiffer and less affected by heat build-up, both of which will improve short-range accuracy (and long range too if conditions are good). However because muzzle velocity is usually (given the right powder) higher in a longer barrel, then this will help accuracy in another way at the longer ranges we shoot, namely by reducing the affect of wind. As an illustration of this, if you look at BR rifles for 100 and 200yd where there is a weight limit, they will have relatively short thick barrels compared with the best 1000yd BR rifles.

So I believe that the optimum barrel length/thickness will depend to large degree on what ranges the rifle will be used for. I will concede that in F-Std, because of rule restrictions on powder, there can be practical limits to barrel length - I suspect this is the case with .223 where even with 2208, its all burnt inside 30"? - no doubt I will be swiftly cut down to size if that isn't the case .

Alan

[Hilly-WA]

I basically have 3 TR rifles at the moment -

7.62 Omark Mod 44 - DF 980 with a 27" barrel with 3500 rnds fired thru it
7.62 Omark Mod 44 - ????? with a 26" barrel .......need more info??
5.56 Omark Mod 44 - SDO260 with a 27" barrel with 300 rnds fired thru it

I would like to build a F-Std out of one of the above initially and possibly keep one as TR for the moment and the last one will be deactivated for the wall......

Which of the above do you think would best suit modification to an F-Std set up??

Jas

[RAVEN]

Have the omarks been rebarreled (I presume they have)
I have seen very good results with ppl using .223 most OPM are only out to 600yard so the .223 will hold it own no problem.
Get the other 2 looked at by a gunsmith and pick the best out of the 2 7.62 have the chamber recut and you will be good to go for another 3-4000 rounds.
longer barrels are only required if you need to shoot 1000 and beyond
Cheers
RB

[Hilly-WA]

More info on rifles

A - 7.62mm - 2nd barrel fitted 95ish, Mabco, heavy std, 1:12 twist
B - 7.62mm - bead dimple finish USA made? still waiting on more info
C - 5.56mm - new barrel, new breach, 2005 man, been told its a 1:8 twist

Jas

[M12LRPV]

The question now needs to be asked...

If the TR profile is not optimum then what is the optimum barrel profile/length for:
* F-Std 308
* F-Std 223

[Woody_rod]

I have seen very good results with ppl using .223 most OPM are only out to 600yard so the .223 will hold it own no problem.
RB

Not sure where the idea about the 223 being inferior is coming from?? Maybe you guys don't shoot against top class shooters using the 223? I have not seen any evidence whatsoever to show that the 308 or 223 is superior in FS.

[Woody_rod]

The question now needs to be asked...

If the TR profile is not optimum then what is the optimum barrel profile/length for:
* F-Std 308
* F-Std 223

Heavy Palma profile is a good start, is not much ligher than a varmint profile, only longer usually.

[RAVEN]

Not sure where the idea about the 223 being inferior is coming from?? Maybe you guys don't shoot against top class shooters using the 223? I have not seen any evidence whatsoever to show that the 308 or 223 is superior in FS.

Woody

Yep that’s right M8
We plonkers here in SA all are of a sub standard ability unlike yourself!
Where in my post did I mention that the 308 was inferior I gave my honest advise on what my perceptions have been competing against FS shooter using both calibres and the original poster was asking which cal to use.
I have shot against lots of .223 standard shooters and they will match it with FO anytime at the shorts.
I consider the 223 possibly easier to shoot good scores because of the lack of recoil and would be a darn site cheaper to run as well.
The 30 will be a little more forgiving at the long ranges.

[Woody_rod]

Yep that’s right M8
We plonkers here in SA all are of a sub standard ability unlike yourself!
Where in my post did I mention that the 308 was inferior I gave my honest advise on what my perceptions have been competing against FS shooter using both calibres and the original poster was asking which cal to use.

Why so defensive? The comment "unlike yourself" is a little childish don't you think?? I do pretty well considering my short time in the sport.

SA is only one state, with one particular way of thinking, neither right or wrong.

Are you coming over to the WARA Queens, maybe you and the SA guys can show us how it is done.

[RAVEN]

Bad day at the office I guess.

Most of the top FS shooters in SA all use .223

I am unaware of anyone travelling to WA queens at this stage
Its very close to the SA queens and we also have the national teams match in Camberra in November so all of the top guns will be focused on that.