80 Grain Amax projectiles

[richmac]

Hi All
I would like other shooters opinion on the 80 grain Hornady Amax projectiles 223.
Just lately the last 2 boxes of 600 that I have purchased seemed to be all over the shop, they vary up to 10 thou. The Lot or batch numbers are 2090207 and 2080828.
Today with a set of digital calipers I measured the overal length from ogive to base of the shell and had quite a lot of variations,they dont seem to be as consistant as when they first came out.I have been experiencing quite a few flyers out of the groups and they are not pimples they are wide.I have changed back to Sierra 80 grainers and they shoot well and the groups are great with no flyers.The price of the Amax compaired to Sierra is quite a bit.I have spoken to quite a few shooters who have been using them and quite a few have lost patience with them and gone back to Sierra.They used to shoot well before (Amax)....is anyone else having this problem?
Interested to find out.
Cheers Rich

[M12LRPV]

I have a problem where they shoot really well for about 10 shots and then accuracy disappears and I need to really scrub the barrel to get it shooting again

I can shoot Noslers accurately all day without cleaning.

[AlanF]

I have a problem where they shoot really well for about 10 shots and then accuracy disappears...

I've had similar problems in the past and molying (both bore paste and on projectiles) fixed it.

Alan

[M12LRPV]

I have a problem where they shoot really well for about 10 shots and then accuracy disappears...

I've had similar problems in the past and molying (both bore paste and on projectiles) fixed it.

Alan

That would probably work.

I forgot to say though... It didn't happen with them seated in remington cases but when switching to lapua cases it started. At the same time there has been no change in the other projectiles that have been swiched from remington to Lapua cases. Just the Amax's...

Weird huh

Moly's a bit of a hassle though and probably not worth it for me while i'm still learning and using a factory barrel.

[AlanF]

Not sure but I suspect Lapua cases have thicker walls = less volume = higher pressure = higher velocity. this could have been just enough to effect the A-Maxes and not the others?

[johnk]

I started wondering about Lapua cartridges when I was at the recent SA Queens. I had a round taken for compliance testing & when it was returned, the projectile had regular scratches along the length if the body that was within the neck. I don't know whether they used an inertia puller or a collet one.

Now, I've noticed that new lapua brass (.308 is all I shoot) comes with evidence of striations in the neck, undoubtledly from their manufacture process. I've always prepped necks with a K & M VLD chamferer, the old style that's something of an issue to keep aligned & is too big in the butt to chuck in a drill press. I had assumed that the less aggressive VLD chamfering would nullify any issue with the brass & it could be the case with normal ignition, but maybe you should consider:

Are the striations present in .223 brass as well?

Do they inconvenience the arguably softer Hornady jackets more than the Sierras?

John

[M12LRPV]

Two very plausible options there that I have considered, although I haven't noticed any striations in the necks, my chamfering might be less than ideal.

The pressure difference created by the non-fireformed cases with less volume is my first bet.

The cases are nearly all fired now.

I might do some more testing with fireformed cases at a later date.

Thanks for the input guy's!

[KHGS]

I have been shooting A-Max bullets in my .223's since they became legal. I do shoot them hbn coated though. What I have found to be very important in getting them to shoot well for me is the throat length of the chamber. I had flyer issues until I lengthened the throat considerably. The other thing I have found is that they have worked best for me in all of my barrels no more than .010" off the lands, from .015" & further out the consistent accuracy falls off. I prefer to shoot mine .015" in, but this is not required .010" off shoots just as well. I use 2206H powder so that the powder is not compressed, I do not like compressed powder charges in accuracy loads. I have success with Rem 7 1/2, CCI 400 & CCI 450 primers. I prefer RWS though, these are a tad softer in the cup than the others mentioned & so flatten a little more, their size is better than the others. I use ADI brass for club use & Lapua for Queens Prize shoots, excellent results with both. I have no fouling problems & can shoot all day without cleaning, but I do clean at the end of each days shooting. I shoot target rifle & save a lot of sighters & shoot about 60% centers on average, I usually manage my share of inners which are all my fault.
Keith H.

[AlanF]

...I had flyer issues until I lengthened the throat considerably...

Keith,
Did you have a reason for thinking that a longer throat would fix it? Just curious.
Alan

[M12LRPV]

...I had flyer issues until I lengthened the throat considerably...

Keith,
Did you have a reason for thinking that a longer throat would fix it? Just curious.
Alan

These are really really long bullets that are shaped very differently to the Noslers and Sierras. I can seat the noslers and sierras without protruding too deeply in the case, but not the Amax's.

Having a chamber with a tight throat (or rough from the factory?) doesn't help

[KHGS]

Yes Alan, there were proven gunsmithing principals involved in my decision. The .223 case is not well designed for a wide range of bullet weights & shapes. The short neck tends to make it suited to only a couple of bullet forms & have the bullet in the best position in the neck, it does not lend itself to successful compromise. The specs of my chamber is suited to the Sierra & A-Max 80 grn bullets, it took a while to "sneak" up on the compromise. It would also suit the Nozler, but I do not use these bullets as only two of my barrels will digest them. The A-Max & Sierra's work in all of them.
Keith H.

[bobped]

For what its worth, Bruce Kneebone had an horrendous run with 80 grain Amax's a few months ago. He finally tracked down the problem to be that the projectiles were actually OUT OF ROUND.
It may have been a particular batch, as I'm sure not all Amax's have the problem. What Bruce found was that quite a few of the projectiles in the batch would not roll down a sheet of glass that was tilted enough so that they should roll down. They had "flat" spots on them. Needless to say, Bruce switched brands.

Another problem I've seen at times is difficulty with seating dies. I was looking at someone's Amax loads the other day, and they had "rings" pressed into the projectiles a bit below the tip. This was where the cup in the bullet seater actually touched and pushed down on the projectile.

Other shooters spoke of the same problem, and some shooters have never experienced it. Anyone else had similar experiences?

I've played with Amax's a bit in two different rifles. In one rifle no matter what I've tried yet, the Amax's are very indifferent, but Sierras shoot very well. I'm going to keep trying but it is frustrating. The other rifle, which I haven't had enough time to experiment with, seems as if it may well shoot the Amax's quite well.
As I said....... frustrating.

Cheers
Bob Pedersen

[KHGS]

Bob, this is part of the very gunsmithing principles I spoke of in my last post.
If you are getting the rings Bob is speaking of, it is almost certain that your A-Max's will not work well for you. Bruce mentioned the "flat" projectiles to me too, all I can say about that is that I have used a number of batches of A-Max bullets with no evidence of any problem once I sorted out the chamber requirements.
Keith H.

[RobH]

I had the same same compresion ring problems with 208 gn A-Max projectiles in my match rifle. The solution is to use a Hornady seating die with an A-Max seating stem. They make one for each bullit calibre. Make sure you specify the A-Max stem when ordering. I have one in 308 and 223.
RobH

[richmac]

Thank you all for your very interesting inputs.I have sent a email to Hornady asking thm re their quality control process.
Also thanks to the people who rang up and discussed the same problems that have been happening with Amax projectiles.
They all agree that they all shot well at one time in their barrells, its just of late that these problems have occured.
once again thanks all for your input.
Cheers Rich