Primer choice for 284 Win

[ecomeat]

I am hoping some of our 284 users might share info re what primers they are currently using ? Any combinations that haven't worked, or that have failed somewhere ? Magnum primers with any particular powder ? Any temperature sensitivity issues ?
I confess to having been playing around a bit with load development, and in our SE Qld heat recently I am seeing some pretty massive themperature sensitivity issues with Reloader 17 in my new 284, but have only been using Federal 210 Match primers. Getting good velocities and accuracy without any pressure signs, but velocity differences of 100-150 fps just days apart.

2213 SC and 2209 both working well, but again only with Federal 210 Match primers . Any advantage noted by anyone using Magnum primers ?
Many using cheaper Russian primers ?
I use CCI BR4 SR primers in a 6 x 47 Lap, and CCI 450 Magnum SR primers in a 6.5 x 47 Lap, and have never had any issues with them over approx 2000 shots fired, but have had 3 x failures in 275 shots with the Federal primers.
Thanks in advance for any input, and Happy Christmas to all our F Class shooters
Tony Berry

[Cameron Mc]

Tony

I have only used CCI BR2 in my 284's. Never had any issues.

Our temperature extremes is the reason I stick with ADI powders.
Best results with 2209, but 2213 can be a winner too.

Hope this helps
Cam

[DaveMc]

Hi Tony,
+1 on Cameron's comments.

Interesting you use the magnum 450 primer in 6.5 and BR4 in 6mm. Seems most are doing the other way around. Slow powders (2209, 2213) seem to need the boost of the small rifle magnum and the faster powders (2208 etc ) seem to go well on BR4 (e.g. 6.5*47 with 123-130).

When you get up to bigger 7mm and slower powders you may need more primer grunt but the 284 works well on BR2. Other ways to mess with initiation pressure and getting a good burn curve are neck tension and jamming - shouldn't be an issue with 2209 but may need some fiddling to get the magic from 2213.

Just a few questions on primer failure as that is a lot. Is it the same action as your "non failing" small rifle primers? Have you checked firing pin spring and extrusion depth? Do you use ultrasonic (or any other wet) cleaning?

Cheers,
Dave

[Norm]

Just use CCI standard LR primers.

[AlanF]

I've used mostly BR-2 and N165 with 6.5-284 then more recently with 284 Shehane. However have had some good results with Fed 210M recently and they could become my "go to" primer. Main disadvantage of Fed primers is the way they're packaged .

Alan

[ecomeat]

Dave and Cameron,
Thanks for your comments.
There wasn't any technical reason to use BR 4's in one and 450's in the other, besides deciding that it might lead to less confusion on a crowded reloading bench using two calibres based on the same Lapua case.
I bought my 6.5 x 47 second hand, and it came with several hundred CCI 450 s which the original owner had been using successfully.
With the 6 x 47 Lap that Phil Jones built new for about 18 mths ago, I just started with CCI BR4s and 2209, and it "worked" right from the beginning so I never considered changing either. Barrel is now gone, and when I get a new switch barrel shortly in 6 x 47 Lap I had intendedl sticking to the same recipe,but following your comments I will definitely try them both the other way around. Thanks for the heads up.
I am very much a newbie with the 7mm, and so much to learn, it's frightening.
I will put a separate post up later for a bit of fun, re ladder testing the 284 Win using 2213sc but it seems I might have got lucky, jamming Berger 180 gr VLDs 0.006" to 0.008" and neck tension of around 0.0015 to 0.002"
I have a 0.313 neck and turned my brass to 0.013 so have 0.003 clearance with a loaded round that measures 0.310..
PRIMER FAILURE
Yes it's the same action. A BAT Model M, that did approx 1150 rounds as a 6 x 47 Lapua before it became a 284 Win, and has now done 275 as a 7mm. So over 1400 shots in total from brand new. I had read a couple of times about firing pin performance deteriorating after 1000 to 1200 rnds, and will get Phil Jones (Redback Precesion Equipment) to check it for me shortly to see if it needs attention.
Sorry this old cow cocky isn't very technical.....when you talk about extrusion depth, do you mean how far the firing pin "goes" past the bolt face when the rifle is fired ? Checking that sounds like another good job for Phil, I think.
RE CLEANING : No I don't use any sort of wet cleaning. Just a bit of elbow grease and Krazy Cloth. I do clean and true my primer pockets and check the flash hole with K & M toys, but every shot so far has been virgin (Lapua) brass on its first firing after necking it up.
Of the 3 x LR primer failures, two DID discharge properly when rechambered and fired again,whilst the 3rd (total failure) has got two very deep primer strikes, but didn't ignite.
Santa is kindly giving me an RCBS puller "die" for Xmas, so it will be interesting to see if there is any obvious flaw with the one that failed totally. (maybe no primer compound ?)
So Dave, are you only using CCI BR2's with your 284 at this stage ?
I started playing with REL 17 and 2213sc due to hearing a few Brisbane based shooters talking anecdotally about 2209 being a bit harder on primer pockets,although as noted I have had instant problems in our heat with temperature inconsistencies leading to huge velocity swings.
Maybe I am being a bit of a woos, but I had already decided that if I could get the 180 VLDs shooting at around the 2700 fps node , and the 168 VLds working at 2820, as per Rod Davies suggestions, that I would NOT go chasing the next higher node, but would rather be content with a good accuracy and not kid myself that the bit better wind performance of the higher node would make much difference to me personally, or at least until I did learn to read wind a bit better.
One fly in the ointment with this at present is Chronograph readings, getting false readings and simply impossible readings, from 3 x seperate chronographs, including firing thru 3 at once (a barrel mounted MagnetoSpeed V1, a Shooting Chrony Beta Master that is a piece of S@#¥ that has never worked properly since I bought it, along with our Clubs Pro Chrony )
My Magneto Speed V2 ( the new one that works on barrels up to 2.5" thick ) has been shipped so hopefully will get some velocity confirmations that I can trust within a week or so.
I know that results on paper at 500 yards or so will count way more than any chronograph reading ever could, but mentally I really want the velocity confirmations to go with ladder testing.
I am hoping to get quite a bit of load development work done at our local range between Xmas and New Year.......where Brett and Meichelle Knudsen will be camping out, along with their two new 284s, and our President will also be camping out, trying to shoot out the 6.5 x 284 that he bought from Knudsens so he can get it rebarreled as a 284 Win!!
I tried videoing some development work here at home last week, shooting at 500 yards in a screaming wind, to save me running over to the target to mark every shot, but that's another story in itself !! And no, I didn't shoot the video camera.
Rgds
Tony

[DaveMc]

Yes Tony - I am happy with the BR2's and my "go to" load is a jammed 180 VLD with 2213 and 1 thou neck tension. It works in all 6 of my 284 barrels so far. I also have some 2209 loads that work well too (also with BR2's. With the 2209 and 175 or 180 sierra and 180Hybrid I can get away with a jump.

With my new 7RSAUM the BR2's and a few more grains 2213 just doesn't seem to cut the mustard (especially jumping hybrids). Am getting much better results with magnum primers in that case - One barrel even more so over the other. - Have ordered some strain gauges so keen to see the pressure curves in each.

[bruce moulds]

dave,
tell us about the strain gauges. sounds interesting.
keep safe,
bruce.

[RDavies]

I use the Russian primers almost exclusively in my 284 as these show best results over the crony with 2209. The BR2s seemed to work best whenever I tried 2213sc. Magnum primers never worked well.
I have tried powders such as N560 to try to get more speed but it was too finicky, giving big velocity swings If I let one stay in the chamber for a long time.
I only used the 2700fps node in 2 barrels (both very accurate but slow), the rest loved the 2820-2840 fps node. Some people are getting up to the high node (@2940 fps)with 2213sc quite successfully, but you would need a fast barrel to do this. With the newer lots of Lapua reportedly having soft primer pockets, I will be limiting myself to the 2840 node and will try 2213sc if the barrel is a slow one or primer pockets exceptionaly soft.

[ecomeat]

dave,
tell us about the strain gauges. sounds interesting.
keep safe,
bruce.

I had never even heard of "strain guages" before Daves posting, and i don't know if this is exactly what Dave is into,up there in the far North, but it's a really interesting link that I found earlier
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/mm5/mer ... ry_Code=PT
It seems that $760 plus postage gets you a decent Chronograph plus the strain Guage gear. Bloody fascinating reading.
Dave I wish you had raised this months ago !! So you have this gear and use it a lot ? I think I already know what Santa should bring me next Xmas.

[ecomeat]

I use the Russian primers almost exclusively in my 284 as these show best results over the crony with 2209. The BR2s seemed to work best whenever I tried 2213sc. Magnum primers never worked well. .

Rod
Are these Russian primers Wolf brand, or PMC or maybe even some other brand ? Are they commonly available ?

[RDavies]

The Russian primers are the PMCs which are available from QRA store in Belmont.

[DaveMc]

First of all merry Christmas to everyone.
So much to say on this topic (SORRY EVRYONE) but I believe it is the heart and soul of how to get a good long range load going. Making your powder/bullet combo burn consistently for low velocity variation to me is the "art" of load development.

But I had better spend some time with the kids today so will just quickly touch on a few things.

1) Strain gauges are a new addition to the ever expanding bag of goodies up here but I have been eying them off for a long while. Yes the ones I have ordered are the RSI ones but you can buy them elsewhere and hook them up to an oscilloscope. (which probably gives you more freedom to check "impulse initiated vibrations", scope mounts etc etc as in Harold Vaughns studies). I am keeping my eye out for an old dual band oscilloscope if anyone hears of any! - in addition to this I have a hundred uses for one.
2) Rods observations on Russian (soft) primers for 2209 fits well with mine. I have noticed in my barrels I too got a better sd with a "softer" start with 2209. whether it is via a jump, light neck tension or primers.
3) 2213 seems to require a bit more kick (understandably as it is slower but not much more). So with soft primers you may need jamming or increased neck tension (or bigger primer). - some barrels will probably just work anyway. And sometimes the velocity sd is hard to believe!!

With all of the above ----"each barrel will be different". No of grooves, surface finish, diameter etc will all add to the resistance and change the pressure curve. Loose barrels may need more neck tension and bigger primers but I think they generally respond better to the faster powders.

I feel that sometimes with slow powders you need to get the pressure up to get them to burn consistently - but let your barrel do the talking - just offer her a few choices!