Hi guys ,two questions if you have time,firstly I have always used very light neck tension so as to get more uniformity and are very happy with the results.my question is with light neck tension is it better to be suited as close to the lands as possible? I use 15 th jump I have never liked jamming bullets but was thinking with really light tension the projectile would start its journey out of the shell much earlier with the light tension,thus possibly requiring the bullet be seated close to the lands.
The second query is no matter what I do I can never get consistent zero runout and are on the quest to achieve this. I get between zero and two thou but would like a consistent zero to one. If I was to purchase a wilson seating die could I achieve this.
Thank you Paul
Jump and wilson dies
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budget
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- Location: upper north south australia
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Cameron Mc
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budget
- Posts: 115
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- Location: upper north south australia
Jump and run out
Thanks for taking the time to reply cam,I would like to get the best possible maybe I'm asking a bit much. Can't believe 110 people have read the post and only one person has answered.
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budget
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:15 pm
- Location: upper north south australia
Jump and run out
Thanks for taking the time to reply cam,I would like to get the best possible maybe I'm asking a bit much. Can't believe 110 people have read the post and only one person has answered.
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ned kelly
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G'day Budget,
I use a bushing 2 thou less than the loaded round neck diameter for nearly 20 years of Benchrest & FO competition. I've jammed bullets about 10 thou into the lands and all the ppc/ 223/22Br/6x47 barrels have responded amazingly well.
I've tried various jump/ touch and jammed in the ppc but have found that with regular and VLD bullets jamming gives consistent performance as the bullet is pushed back each time, for a consistent bullet grip and position relative to the lands.
This also helps align the bullet in the barrel. And keeping the cases trimmed to the shortest case length also ensures consistent bullet grip.
Groups routinely shoot better than 0.5moa and usually put 60% into half that figure.
try jamming and see what set up works for you. I think I may have had 3 rounds where the bullet has become stuck, but the case always extracts from the chamber.
Hope this helps.
Cheerio Ned
I use a bushing 2 thou less than the loaded round neck diameter for nearly 20 years of Benchrest & FO competition. I've jammed bullets about 10 thou into the lands and all the ppc/ 223/22Br/6x47 barrels have responded amazingly well.
I've tried various jump/ touch and jammed in the ppc but have found that with regular and VLD bullets jamming gives consistent performance as the bullet is pushed back each time, for a consistent bullet grip and position relative to the lands.
This also helps align the bullet in the barrel. And keeping the cases trimmed to the shortest case length also ensures consistent bullet grip.
Groups routinely shoot better than 0.5moa and usually put 60% into half that figure.
try jamming and see what set up works for you. I think I may have had 3 rounds where the bullet has become stuck, but the case always extracts from the chamber.
Hope this helps.
Cheerio Ned
-
williada
- Posts: 969
- Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:37 am
Getting a bit off track but relevant
There are a few further considerations for shooters assuming dies are good and set up properly before you can assess the correct free flight or jump.
I take the view that cases have been settled into a springback shape after three firings. For the first firing I like to jam in the lands, not necessarily for accuracy but to set the case up for future firings and even wear of your gear. By doing this, there are a couple of benefits because the case is sitting in the middle of the chamber (concentric) and not at six o'clock in the chamber.
Firstly, the future brass flow will be even. The six o'clock position stretches and thins the case on top in a perfect chamber let alone the complications from an oval chamber or a banana one. There is a tendency with springback to resort to the original firing in shape so run out problems are often seen consistently in the one direction even in the best of dies. The secret then to hold the case concentrically will be to maintain case shoulder length. Don't be afraid to use a bump die to move the shoulder back by no more than 0.001" or use a collet die for subsequent firings or better still have a custom die made or make your own with the same chamber reamer for full length sizing. The cases can be then used with any jump that demonstrates accuracy.
I generally only used a jam setting for an efficient powder burn and usually on cases that were not filled to capacity with the base of the bullet sitting at the junction of the neck and shoulde. Of course fast burning powders may overcome the lack of an efficient burn. I prefer no air gap. You should have a throat designed for the projectile you use (check out Lilja’s site) and one that is not so short as to force the projectile below the junction of the shoulder and the neck. VLD’s like to be jammed. But most of my experience is with old thirty calibres. Some information may be transferable.
Brass has a habit of hardening over time, and so change its dimensions. It’s probably best to resize close to match time. This is probably an argument for annealing but that is another topic.
I would point out that there was a theory in the late ‘70’s you need .002” crush on the bolt to force the round into a central position with case shoulder contact. This was wrong because there were a few amateurs around who did not realize that you had to allow .002” crush on the barrel shoulder when drawing it up to give 0.0 headspace which is minimum headspace. It was a shocker for lug wear.
In fact future testing revealed you had to go the other way with factory rounds to accommodate batches of longer cases particularly with British rounds because you could not close the bolt. With the .308W, I like a 1.630” headspace for reloads, for American Winchester factory 1.631” and for the old British RG it was 1.633”. So your gunsmith has to know what they are doing.
In relation to this point, the use of switch barrels there is a problem that constant changing of barrels can affect the draw up crush and therefore dimensions. They tend to want to keep going past your reference marks with use as the threads smooth. I polish my threads with an icy pole stick shaped at 60 degrees with grit in the lathe, slow but worth it for vibrations and consistent draw-up before it changes.
If you consistently use a case that drops to six o'clock in the chamber a couple of bad things happen. This was so evident in the old days when we used factory ammunition and particularly with the crush fit. For instance, the six o'clock lug on a two lug action starts to take a hammering over time. (Also a good reason for having a blue printed bolt and race or a custom quality action. A couple of us added an extra downward screw through the top rear of the action to contact the rear of the bolt to counter the rise of the bolt due to the engagement of the bent and sear of the trigger on cocking which would otherwise lead to six o’clock wear of the lug and a bolt face that was not perpendicular to the chamber. Borden is famous for a similar strategy with his Borden bumps.) Shots will be lost from fliers due to poor recoil lug contact. You should regularly blue your lugs to check for wear and grease them. They may have to be re-lapped properly. If you are using cases for reloads, don’t expect a .001” run out if lugs are not fully engaged.
But the other thing I noticed long ago while re-chambering and looking down with a bore scope the clean fresh cut exposed the six o'clock wear in the throat. You would expect the same chamber reamer would follow is original hole. The original chamber was first bored concentric with the throat in a four jawed chuck and then reamed so they were straight. If you are going to nip up a chamber do it sooner than later because the barrel will be ruined unless you cut several inches off.
The six o'clock loading also distorts the vibrations for tuning and we know the projectile is distorted. To the extreme, the projectile is so malleable it can turn corners as during the second, world war, some barrels were bent at right angles to shoot around corners in city fighting. The projectile followed the bore but how accurate it was would be debatable. The point I make is that there is an induced yaw, a barrel slap that fouls more in one area with distorted vibration and this is more pronounced with a boat tail bullet.
The best and most accurate presentation is a concentric one, for even barrel wear, gas seal and even pressure on the base of the projectile and good vibration. In a fitted or tight neck the problem is largely mitigated. So generally speaking even low run out won't prevent the misalignment with the bore.
The downside in our shooting which can be quick at times is a carbon build up and gas erosion in the throat with jam settings. It’s a hotter burn due to friction. The practice of ramming that case home to jam has led to catastrophic disaster. I know of one situation as I was told, where a firing pin broke and the pin jammed protruding out and lit the rocket before the bolt cammed over as it was rammed home. The bolt came back and tore a hole in the shooter’s face. I have witnessed in a State Teams Match in the 70’s when a team mate left the projectile in the throat and the powder in the bolt race during a rapid fire event. Unload commands are still common and you can be caught out when it matters most, particularly if neck tension is light.
You need to experiment with free flight after you develop a fundamental charge. Shooters often batch cases by weight. I think it’s the volume that counts. Its time consuming but fill cases with water on the second firing leaving the primer in and weigh them to batch. Next batch the empty case in the chamber by closing the bolt on it for feel. For bullets I batch for both ogive length and body length. Ogive measurement is necessary for accurate jump and body for friction effects.
Kissing the lands can be hard to measure and does not account for carbon build up and variable pressure aside from accurate ogive. Start testing between .005” and .010”. I had a Border barrel that was a prize meeting winner when I took the throat out to give an .080” jump with 45 grains of 2206 (fast burning) for bullet exit timing with the appropriate the barrel lift. Each barrel and chambering configuration is different so you have to suck it and see.
Let me say after considerable experiment with bore size and land depth. Tighter bores are slower than bigger bores despite an initial higher peak pressure. The bullet is quickly swaged to bore size and it travels the length of the barrel in its new dimensions forged at the throat unless you have a tapered bore. Some are purposely lapped that way. I believe Obermyer led the rash of .3065 bores for English ammo because it was less than .308 for 144 grn bullets. I believe new bullets increased to .308 and Shultz and Larson who went with .3074 had great success. However some carried the tradition on of the tight barrel, even when the diameter went to .308. It still worked for the new English round and I have tested brown box and blue box (now you can use reloads). Why I wondered? Now if something is squashed down it can only get longer. If it gets longer does this increase its BC in a 1-12 barrel commonly used? We know jacket hardness can be a factor and old military jackets were harder and required deeper lands. Was the land depth right for this new form? Or was the frictional timing right due to swaging and bore finish (porosity)? In this sense if you use Plasticene on glass it will stick and foul because it is too smooth but used on a rougher surface it will not. The bore surface has consequences for fouling. Matches are won at long range, assuming you can read the conditions with better gear.
Using the Australian .308W around 2002, its jacket was thin and soft. The bullet must maintain the velocity above the transonic range to remain stable at 1000 yards otherwise you have to increase twist rate. You must realise the speed of sound changes with temperature and so does the transonic zone. Subsequent testing of bore sizes for the older Sierra ranging in .0005” graduations from .3065 to .308 were tested in pairs with varying twist rates and land depth throat length and leed angle with British and Palma chambers in Krieger barrels which all shot well. Another brand name barrel was hopeless but its mate was ok and my Border was superb. The best and consistent results came from 1-13’s, .3075 x .298 Kreigers from the machine rest at 1000 yards in summer conditions. The length to beat the transonic zone was 31 inches. They consistently grouped 10 shots well under 1 minute of angle with factory ammo. But remember this dimension was for that particular bullet If you were running bullets with a longer bearing surface there would be nothing wrong with .308 X .300.
I have not tested other calibres to this extent, but I imagine the results would be interesting.
As a note, land sizes can be lead lapped down to size by tapping up the lap with a copper rod. The rounded edges of the lands have to be removed by a copper lap. The resulting belling of the muzzle has to be cut off with the crown placed at the minimum diameter. That’s all folks, I can get carried away.
I take the view that cases have been settled into a springback shape after three firings. For the first firing I like to jam in the lands, not necessarily for accuracy but to set the case up for future firings and even wear of your gear. By doing this, there are a couple of benefits because the case is sitting in the middle of the chamber (concentric) and not at six o'clock in the chamber.
Firstly, the future brass flow will be even. The six o'clock position stretches and thins the case on top in a perfect chamber let alone the complications from an oval chamber or a banana one. There is a tendency with springback to resort to the original firing in shape so run out problems are often seen consistently in the one direction even in the best of dies. The secret then to hold the case concentrically will be to maintain case shoulder length. Don't be afraid to use a bump die to move the shoulder back by no more than 0.001" or use a collet die for subsequent firings or better still have a custom die made or make your own with the same chamber reamer for full length sizing. The cases can be then used with any jump that demonstrates accuracy.
I generally only used a jam setting for an efficient powder burn and usually on cases that were not filled to capacity with the base of the bullet sitting at the junction of the neck and shoulde. Of course fast burning powders may overcome the lack of an efficient burn. I prefer no air gap. You should have a throat designed for the projectile you use (check out Lilja’s site) and one that is not so short as to force the projectile below the junction of the shoulder and the neck. VLD’s like to be jammed. But most of my experience is with old thirty calibres. Some information may be transferable.
Brass has a habit of hardening over time, and so change its dimensions. It’s probably best to resize close to match time. This is probably an argument for annealing but that is another topic.
I would point out that there was a theory in the late ‘70’s you need .002” crush on the bolt to force the round into a central position with case shoulder contact. This was wrong because there were a few amateurs around who did not realize that you had to allow .002” crush on the barrel shoulder when drawing it up to give 0.0 headspace which is minimum headspace. It was a shocker for lug wear.
In fact future testing revealed you had to go the other way with factory rounds to accommodate batches of longer cases particularly with British rounds because you could not close the bolt. With the .308W, I like a 1.630” headspace for reloads, for American Winchester factory 1.631” and for the old British RG it was 1.633”. So your gunsmith has to know what they are doing.
In relation to this point, the use of switch barrels there is a problem that constant changing of barrels can affect the draw up crush and therefore dimensions. They tend to want to keep going past your reference marks with use as the threads smooth. I polish my threads with an icy pole stick shaped at 60 degrees with grit in the lathe, slow but worth it for vibrations and consistent draw-up before it changes.
If you consistently use a case that drops to six o'clock in the chamber a couple of bad things happen. This was so evident in the old days when we used factory ammunition and particularly with the crush fit. For instance, the six o'clock lug on a two lug action starts to take a hammering over time. (Also a good reason for having a blue printed bolt and race or a custom quality action. A couple of us added an extra downward screw through the top rear of the action to contact the rear of the bolt to counter the rise of the bolt due to the engagement of the bent and sear of the trigger on cocking which would otherwise lead to six o’clock wear of the lug and a bolt face that was not perpendicular to the chamber. Borden is famous for a similar strategy with his Borden bumps.) Shots will be lost from fliers due to poor recoil lug contact. You should regularly blue your lugs to check for wear and grease them. They may have to be re-lapped properly. If you are using cases for reloads, don’t expect a .001” run out if lugs are not fully engaged.
But the other thing I noticed long ago while re-chambering and looking down with a bore scope the clean fresh cut exposed the six o'clock wear in the throat. You would expect the same chamber reamer would follow is original hole. The original chamber was first bored concentric with the throat in a four jawed chuck and then reamed so they were straight. If you are going to nip up a chamber do it sooner than later because the barrel will be ruined unless you cut several inches off.
The six o'clock loading also distorts the vibrations for tuning and we know the projectile is distorted. To the extreme, the projectile is so malleable it can turn corners as during the second, world war, some barrels were bent at right angles to shoot around corners in city fighting. The projectile followed the bore but how accurate it was would be debatable. The point I make is that there is an induced yaw, a barrel slap that fouls more in one area with distorted vibration and this is more pronounced with a boat tail bullet.
The best and most accurate presentation is a concentric one, for even barrel wear, gas seal and even pressure on the base of the projectile and good vibration. In a fitted or tight neck the problem is largely mitigated. So generally speaking even low run out won't prevent the misalignment with the bore.
The downside in our shooting which can be quick at times is a carbon build up and gas erosion in the throat with jam settings. It’s a hotter burn due to friction. The practice of ramming that case home to jam has led to catastrophic disaster. I know of one situation as I was told, where a firing pin broke and the pin jammed protruding out and lit the rocket before the bolt cammed over as it was rammed home. The bolt came back and tore a hole in the shooter’s face. I have witnessed in a State Teams Match in the 70’s when a team mate left the projectile in the throat and the powder in the bolt race during a rapid fire event. Unload commands are still common and you can be caught out when it matters most, particularly if neck tension is light.
You need to experiment with free flight after you develop a fundamental charge. Shooters often batch cases by weight. I think it’s the volume that counts. Its time consuming but fill cases with water on the second firing leaving the primer in and weigh them to batch. Next batch the empty case in the chamber by closing the bolt on it for feel. For bullets I batch for both ogive length and body length. Ogive measurement is necessary for accurate jump and body for friction effects.
Kissing the lands can be hard to measure and does not account for carbon build up and variable pressure aside from accurate ogive. Start testing between .005” and .010”. I had a Border barrel that was a prize meeting winner when I took the throat out to give an .080” jump with 45 grains of 2206 (fast burning) for bullet exit timing with the appropriate the barrel lift. Each barrel and chambering configuration is different so you have to suck it and see.
Let me say after considerable experiment with bore size and land depth. Tighter bores are slower than bigger bores despite an initial higher peak pressure. The bullet is quickly swaged to bore size and it travels the length of the barrel in its new dimensions forged at the throat unless you have a tapered bore. Some are purposely lapped that way. I believe Obermyer led the rash of .3065 bores for English ammo because it was less than .308 for 144 grn bullets. I believe new bullets increased to .308 and Shultz and Larson who went with .3074 had great success. However some carried the tradition on of the tight barrel, even when the diameter went to .308. It still worked for the new English round and I have tested brown box and blue box (now you can use reloads). Why I wondered? Now if something is squashed down it can only get longer. If it gets longer does this increase its BC in a 1-12 barrel commonly used? We know jacket hardness can be a factor and old military jackets were harder and required deeper lands. Was the land depth right for this new form? Or was the frictional timing right due to swaging and bore finish (porosity)? In this sense if you use Plasticene on glass it will stick and foul because it is too smooth but used on a rougher surface it will not. The bore surface has consequences for fouling. Matches are won at long range, assuming you can read the conditions with better gear.
Using the Australian .308W around 2002, its jacket was thin and soft. The bullet must maintain the velocity above the transonic range to remain stable at 1000 yards otherwise you have to increase twist rate. You must realise the speed of sound changes with temperature and so does the transonic zone. Subsequent testing of bore sizes for the older Sierra ranging in .0005” graduations from .3065 to .308 were tested in pairs with varying twist rates and land depth throat length and leed angle with British and Palma chambers in Krieger barrels which all shot well. Another brand name barrel was hopeless but its mate was ok and my Border was superb. The best and consistent results came from 1-13’s, .3075 x .298 Kreigers from the machine rest at 1000 yards in summer conditions. The length to beat the transonic zone was 31 inches. They consistently grouped 10 shots well under 1 minute of angle with factory ammo. But remember this dimension was for that particular bullet If you were running bullets with a longer bearing surface there would be nothing wrong with .308 X .300.
I have not tested other calibres to this extent, but I imagine the results would be interesting.
As a note, land sizes can be lead lapped down to size by tapping up the lap with a copper rod. The rounded edges of the lands have to be removed by a copper lap. The resulting belling of the muzzle has to be cut off with the crown placed at the minimum diameter. That’s all folks, I can get carried away.
Last edited by williada on Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
budget
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:15 pm
- Location: upper north south australia
Jump and wilson dies
Well bugger me and I thought no one was interested.thank you so much for the reply very very interesting. I have a grunig action as well as a grunig barrel it is the first time I have had different barrel apart from,border and krieger.this barrel is a 300x 3075 and I have trouble getting anything over 2960 fps. Bearing that in mind for a rifle that is obviously built for 300 meters it groups exceedingly well at 1000yds in the prone position. It is a 13 twist Crome Molly barrel going against the flavour of the month where a slower twist is a lot more popular.
Regards paul
Regards paul
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williada
- Posts: 969
- Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:37 am
Paul, don't let anyone tell you a chrome moly won't shoot. Stainless is softer and nicks so easily and takes a while to work harden so break in is critical. It may be a better heat sink and less prone to gas erosion but it is known to catastrophically fail IN VERY COLD CONDITIONS. Any nick with constant hammering can make it open up. Suppose its like cutting glass in a way. I will have to ask my eldest son who did his final engineering paper on catastrophic failure of barrels to be sure. The stainless we use was not designed specifically for pressure vessel conditions but chrome moly was as I understand it. Stainless is easier to lap into specification before natural hardening occurs than chrome moly and it is easier to clean. I have also been involved in the manufacture of both long ago and know how hard stainless is to work with. It can be full of hard and soft spots to make the drill wander even if it is certified at a certain state with heat treatment and then there can be issues with subsequent heat treatment if a stage is left out that can lead to catastrophic failure as has happened to others. Chrome moly is much safer. If you are prepared to put the effort into chrome moly it will shoot just as well as stainless.
Your barrel's twist rate is better suited to where you live in the warmer conditions. It is only the new 155's that are longer and with a higher BC that require a 1-12 for the longs. For the short range the 1-13 maybe superior. There is plenty of stuff on the internet to allow you to calculate this now. The literature coming out on these new pills certainly suggest they are better for cold, dense sea level atmospheres so its horses for courses. Do the economics. Which distance do you shoot at the most if you have a limited number of rifles? So how often would you shoot 1000 yards as against the rest? This distance is right on the limit for .308W and requires a specialist setup to be consistent.
As far as your muzzle velocity goes, in warm conditions with a Kreiger Palma barrel profile, I found 2975 fps was about the right speed over a number of barrels I tested in terms of averages for the longs. It also placed the pill above the transonic range for 1000 yards (where bullets become unstable as they drop below the sound barrier). So your muzzle velocity is still right there. It’s probably a matter of tuning your gear and load development. I always run with the theory that if a slower load is more accurate, run with that and learn the adjustments you have to make for conditions.
Further to chrome moly in competition. A few years ago my wife was using a 25 inch old Omark 44B barrel that I had cut down and taper lapped for an old Muzzie action at a Horsham prize meeting. She was being teased for barrel lift and the old gear in friendly way at the shoot. There were a few Australian team members and ex members and State team members for SA and Vic with all the wiz bang stuff and long barrels present. She had the last laugh at the end of the day with a perfect and top score across four ranges. On the second day, she would have won the meet but she plonked a bull on the wrong target. She could shoot a stick. The same woman in Sydney in the State Womens Teams event in one of her last big shoots a while ago now, because we rarely shoot these days, top scored in the event and later got a good badge in the Queens in rough conditions. That shoot was with a stainless that I re-lapped. Perc Pavey once gave me a sugar bag of old barrels he collected from other shooters who said they were finished and wanted a new one fitted. He winked and said they were fools but the customer is always right. My wife’s was the last of these and I did it as a project on taper lapping when I dug it out years later on an action my old mate Herb McRorie gave me. As an aside, Perc’s front fence was made out of old barrels. I used these barrels for schools programs and gave them away to friends who could not afford new gear. If someone accurises your rifle, anything will shoot with proper load development.
The problem with knowledge is, once you become a threat too many competitors don’t want to feed you anymore. So my goal in writing long winded pieces is to create an even playing field where possible, where the best marksman will win with no advantage in buying a score and to release knowledge to break the secret men or women’s business. From discussion we will learn and add to our wisdom because someone else can always contribute something new. It’s the bread and butter base of shooters that keep the whole movement alive. I suppose I also miss the days when issued ammo was the great leveller but I value the F Open shooters because we need people to constantly work at the cutting edge to improve. I suppose it’s about the willingness to share that you were annoyed about. But some of the thinkers need time to think before they respond and others can go bam, there it is, “try that” because they want to help.
The cost of this sport is a barrier to entry unless people help one another and get pleasure from the process.
Goodluck,
David.
Your barrel's twist rate is better suited to where you live in the warmer conditions. It is only the new 155's that are longer and with a higher BC that require a 1-12 for the longs. For the short range the 1-13 maybe superior. There is plenty of stuff on the internet to allow you to calculate this now. The literature coming out on these new pills certainly suggest they are better for cold, dense sea level atmospheres so its horses for courses. Do the economics. Which distance do you shoot at the most if you have a limited number of rifles? So how often would you shoot 1000 yards as against the rest? This distance is right on the limit for .308W and requires a specialist setup to be consistent.
As far as your muzzle velocity goes, in warm conditions with a Kreiger Palma barrel profile, I found 2975 fps was about the right speed over a number of barrels I tested in terms of averages for the longs. It also placed the pill above the transonic range for 1000 yards (where bullets become unstable as they drop below the sound barrier). So your muzzle velocity is still right there. It’s probably a matter of tuning your gear and load development. I always run with the theory that if a slower load is more accurate, run with that and learn the adjustments you have to make for conditions.
Further to chrome moly in competition. A few years ago my wife was using a 25 inch old Omark 44B barrel that I had cut down and taper lapped for an old Muzzie action at a Horsham prize meeting. She was being teased for barrel lift and the old gear in friendly way at the shoot. There were a few Australian team members and ex members and State team members for SA and Vic with all the wiz bang stuff and long barrels present. She had the last laugh at the end of the day with a perfect and top score across four ranges. On the second day, she would have won the meet but she plonked a bull on the wrong target. She could shoot a stick. The same woman in Sydney in the State Womens Teams event in one of her last big shoots a while ago now, because we rarely shoot these days, top scored in the event and later got a good badge in the Queens in rough conditions. That shoot was with a stainless that I re-lapped. Perc Pavey once gave me a sugar bag of old barrels he collected from other shooters who said they were finished and wanted a new one fitted. He winked and said they were fools but the customer is always right. My wife’s was the last of these and I did it as a project on taper lapping when I dug it out years later on an action my old mate Herb McRorie gave me. As an aside, Perc’s front fence was made out of old barrels. I used these barrels for schools programs and gave them away to friends who could not afford new gear. If someone accurises your rifle, anything will shoot with proper load development.
The problem with knowledge is, once you become a threat too many competitors don’t want to feed you anymore. So my goal in writing long winded pieces is to create an even playing field where possible, where the best marksman will win with no advantage in buying a score and to release knowledge to break the secret men or women’s business. From discussion we will learn and add to our wisdom because someone else can always contribute something new. It’s the bread and butter base of shooters that keep the whole movement alive. I suppose I also miss the days when issued ammo was the great leveller but I value the F Open shooters because we need people to constantly work at the cutting edge to improve. I suppose it’s about the willingness to share that you were annoyed about. But some of the thinkers need time to think before they respond and others can go bam, there it is, “try that” because they want to help.
The cost of this sport is a barrier to entry unless people help one another and get pleasure from the process.
Goodluck,
David.
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