Southcape wrote: you will find the teams are only to willing to share information with people. They figure if you beat them, using their own knowledge, then they need to try harder. I love this way of thinking.
Linda - There is an old Cairns Proverb (and I am sure a chinese one that is similar).
"If one is to keep all information to himself then one will only gain a single mans knowledge in a lifetime. If one was to share his knowledge with 1000 men then in return he will gain 1000 lifetimes of knowledge."
But, down here in the roaring 35’s, we tend to drag them up through club level, where respect is earned, and not given. Don’t get me wrong, you will learn more about this sport by joining and shooting at a club than you will ever learn by scouring the intranet for the “edge”. Range time is what it’s about.
There are only so many things you can glean from the intranet. No one can give you a definitive answer on, “How to read the wind”.
I confess to still playing second/third & forth+ fiddle to it.
A good wind reader with a .308 will smash an also-ran with a 7mm Blitzem any day.
Hang fire, what he means is that a lot of the higher scoring F Open shooters share info with other high scoring F Open shooters, even if the other shooter is the main competition for wins in Queens Prize Shoots. With these shooters, they discuss more in depth technical matters which would probably be more than C graders need to know just yet. I, like a few other shooters I know are mentoring new shooters. not going into in-depth technical info which they don't need to know just yet, but mainly coaching them in general shooting a wind reading. Last weekend I coached a shooter, shooting a center fire for the 1st time, to a 59 score (2nd place), no ballistics talk, just group centering and wind reading. Even the most one eyed, die hard F Open fan wil agree that a good wind reader with a 308 will outshoot the biggest badest 7mm with a C grade wind reader doing the shooting.
Last edited by RDavies on Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What I was trying to express was that the knowledge that is imparted at a club level is of far more value than anything you can get from the net.
The mentoring and information passed on is invaluable. The members at the club I belong to have encouraged participation within the sport and competition is always there if that’s what you’re after.
The info you and the rest of the A graders post IS worth reading, it is to the betterment of the sport.
I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else with what was written. Another case of tongue in cheek.
RDavies wrote:...... no ballistics talk, just group centering and wind reading........
Rod, that is why my better half beats me lots of times, she does not get caught up in all the techno, ballistico, hydrid sine wave talk we go on with.
I have seen quite a few shooters over the years get bogged down with equipment talk hoping they can just shoot through the wind. There is no substitute for actual shooting.
Cameron Mc wrote:That's why we are shooting Christmas Eve
Funny you should say that Cameron. We had our Christmas shoot last Saturday thinking that Christmas Eve wouldn't be popular - bad call - nearly everyone's coming!
bruce moulds wrote:dave, be aware that the 280 case holds more powder than the 7mm/06 due to the shoulder being 0.050 forward. full to the top of the neck, i believe that the 280ai is closer in capacity to the saum than the 284 win. rws brass is $$$$$$, but it is if anything better than lapua. there is also nosler 280ai off the shelf. it would seem that the 280ai will work with ar2217, offering improved barrel life. my experiments show real world capacities to be virtually the same for the 7mm/06 unimproved and the 284 win to the base of the neck. there are a few around here in s.a., and all shoot well with minimal work. one thig the 280ai has is a lovely long neck, meaning you don't require much freebore (less than 0.2") and there is a bit more protection offered to the throat. bruce.
hurry up and do it bruce!! i wana see someone try something new allready! sometimes you have to be at the bottom before you can develop something that will put you at the top. . . . . thats why im at the bottom!
Hangfire - don't worry you didn't rain on my philosophical parade.
What I think is truly great about this sport and indeed this forum is the willingness of most of the top shooters to share their information. Just look up the NRAA rankings list and a lot of the top contibutors are the top ranked shooters. Rod, Alan and Cameron leading by example.
I propose that this may be a "chicken or egg" thing. Is it the willingness of these guys to share that got them to the top? Or did they get to the top before and then start sharing - I think it is obvious. It may have all been done at club level to start but I bet everyone of them was a "giver".
Particularly in F open where there is arguably a lot more mumbo jumbo to wade through.
But in an effort to get this back on track - with regards twists and nodes - if you also look at the top 5 ranked shooters at least - notice a pattern?? - they are all shooting 7mm 8.5-9 twist at around 2800-2840 fps.
No doubt their are some other combinations working well but the above recipe is a tried and proven one.
bruce moulds wrote:dave, be aware that the 280 case holds more powder than the 7mm/06 due to the shoulder being 0.050 forward. full to the top of the neck, i believe that the 280ai is closer in capacity to the saum than the 284 win. rws brass is $$$$$$, but it is if anything better than lapua. there is also nosler 280ai off the shelf. it would seem that the 280ai will work with ar2217, offering improved barrel life. my experiments show real world capacities to be virtually the same for the 7mm/06 unimproved and the 284 win to the base of the neck. there are a few around here in s.a., and all shoot well with minimal work. one thig the 280ai has is a lovely long neck, meaning you don't require much freebore (less than 0.2") and there is a bit more protection offered to the throat. bruce.
hurry up and do it bruce!! i wana see someone try something new allready! sometimes you have to be at the bottom before you can develop something that will put you at the top. . . . . thats why im at the bottom!
bruce moulds wrote:dave, be aware that the 280 case holds more powder than the 7mm/06 due to the shoulder being 0.050 forward. full to the top of the neck, i believe that the 280ai is closer in capacity to the saum than the 284 win. rws brass is $$$$$$, but it is if anything better than lapua. there is also nosler 280ai off the shelf. it would seem that the 280ai will work with ar2217, offering improved barrel life. my experiments show real world capacities to be virtually the same for the 7mm/06 unimproved and the 284 win to the base of the neck. there are a few around here in s.a., and all shoot well with minimal work. one thig the 280ai has is a lovely long neck, meaning you don't require much freebore (less than 0.2") and there is a bit more protection offered to the throat. bruce.
hurry up and do it bruce!! i wana see someone try something new allready! sometimes you have to be at the bottom before you can develop something that will put you at the top. . . . . thats why im at the bottom!
Stay tuned BAT
im tuned. . . . im still tuned!!!! jan OPM at lower light???
then one will only gain a single mans knowledge in a lifetime. If one was to share his knowledge with 1000 men then in return he will gain 1000 lifetimes of knowledge." 
Must have something to do with the heat.
i wana see someone try something new allready! sometimes you have to be at the bottom before you can develop something that will put you at the top. . . . . thats why im at the bottom! 
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