Lapua .284 brass life

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:49 pm

Hi Guys and Gals,

I know this has been touched on a bit in other .284 threads, but I'm pretty disappointed today..

I've previously identified after fireforming that the primer pockets open easily on these cases with heavy loads.
I'm using AR2213sc and 180 Berg. Hyb's at 2830 fps. I was pretty sure this load was not too hot.
They've been fired 4 times and the primer pockets are waaaay too loose in my opinion. :evil:

They were questionable after the second and third firing, but now................. :cry:

For the amount of work involved getting these cases prepped (removing donuts, etc), I'm disappointed to see the first batch of brass has come to an end so early.
I guess I've had it easy starting out with loading 6BR

16 firings and still perfect in all areas.

I know that using 168's is supposed to reduce this problem, but I like the 180's.

What brass life are you guys getting with 180's?
What MV are you running them at?
Have you tried different brands of brass and with what results?

Thanks, Denis.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:28 pm

Denis,
What powder charge are you using?
Are you neck turning?
If so what is the clearance you are running for bullet release?

I have found that the brass is OK, its the case design that sucks. Just not designed for high pressure loads.
I am getting a bit better case life than you but not much.

agro · Post by **agro** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:52 pm

Matt Paroz had the same issue.
Review the thread attached,
http://ozfclass.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:16 pm

Norm wrote:Denis,
What powder charge are you using?
Are you neck turning?
If so what is the clearance you are running for bullet release?

I have found that the brass is OK, its the case design that sucks. Just not designed for high pressure loads.
I am getting a bit better case life than you but not much.

Hi Norm,

55.6g of ar2213sc.
Fired neck diameter is 0.319", I resize to 0.3095" for .0005" neck tension.
Necks have been turned to a 50% clean up just to remove the donuts from necking up.
I anneal every firing so the necks always soft.

The load I've found has been jammed.
Do you jam or jump yours and how many firings are you getting?

Thanks Agro, thats the thread that I vaguely remembered, I should have run my post off that one.............. My apologies.

FWIW, by loose primer pocket, I mean that I feel no resistance with an RCBS hand primer until the last .010" where its slight. If I try hard and put an impression in my thumb, I can thumb a primer in until its just above flushh with the base.

Thanks for the responses.

Cameron Mc · Post by **Cameron Mc** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Denis, do you kick off with hot loads?

I found it is better to fireform with mild loads. My lapua cases in 284 Shehane have done around 10 firings and pockets are still firm. I use 52g 2209 with 180bergers. The bigger calibres like more neck clearance too.

Cameron

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:08 pm

Cameron Mc wrote:Denis, do you kick off with hot loads?

I found it is better to fireform with mild loads. My lapua cases in 284 Shehane have done around 10 firings and pockets are still firm. I use 52g 2209 with 180bergers. The bigger calibres like more neck clearance too.

Cameron

Hi Cam,

Happy New Year to you guys,

I kicked off with mild loads but with a fast powder. I used a min AR2208 load and 150g pills jammed to keep the case base against the bolt face try and blow the case out towards the shoulder.

What sort of speeds are you getting with 52g of AR2209. Maybe I should try that path.

Post by **AlanF** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:21 pm

Denis,

I've been keeping the 180s below about 2900fps (Shehane chamber) to avoid the problem. The standard 284 will probably give trouble at slightly lower velocities but your 2830 is lower than I would have expected. Perhaps you have a slow chrono, or a slow barrel. An alternative is to use SMK 175s. I can get 2950fps with them without excessive head expansion. Their G7 BC is about 0.327, not far behind the 180VLDs (0.337). The SMKs are a tad smaller diameter than any of the 7mm Bergers, so will suit tighter barrels.

Alan

RDavies · Post by **RDavies** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:26 pm

I have been using the same few hundred cases for the last few years in a few different barrels in 284 Shehane. After who knows how many firings, maybe 30 or more, the pockets started getting too loose to hold primers. Last month, I bought a new lot of blue box Lapua and fire formed into 284Shehane with light loads in my new barrel. On the first firing with my old loads,(53gns 2209) I have already started to lose primers. I would say I have a tight barrel and maybe a fast lot of powder, but this new brass really does seem softer than my old lot.

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:05 am

Thanks Alan and Rod, thats good info. The 175 SMK experience is interesting. Mark F was shooting those up here at Belmont late last year and he was really happy with their consistancy at the longs. He moved from the Bergers at that stage as a cost excericse.

I'd be interested to see the results of my same load with Norma and Winchester brass. Its just not worth killing a barrel in testing.

I use Norma with my 300..."cough"...M and I'm not very impressed with it............ thats another thread though.

DaveMc · Post by **DaveMc** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:01 am

Hi denis I have found that running the shehane at 2820-40 the brass lasts a long time but at 2900+ I only get a few firings similar to the above stories. Winchester is rumored to be tougher in the case head by those who have tried both.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:34 am

Hi Norm,

55.6g of ar2213sc.
Fired neck diameter is 0.319", I resize to 0.3095" for .0005" neck tension.
Necks have been turned to a 50% clean up just to remove the donuts from necking up.
I anneal every firing so the necks always soft.

Denis,
I used the exact same load, 0.012" into the lands and got the exact same result with primer pockets openning up quickly with my lot of Lapua brass.
After a couple of firings, the brass expanded that much that it was difficult to get the case rim into the shell holder with some cases!
I tried to back off my load and it worked but velocity is not great.

Matt P · Post by **Matt P** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:52 am

Hi All
I don't think there's much you can do other than back the load off (and hope it shoots as well) or buy lots of brass !!! IMO it's the case design that's the problem. The other option is another case of similar capacity.

Matt P

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:12 pm

Time for some new brass and many more hours of case prep. At least I'll be good at it :cry:

I've got plenty of 180 VLD's in the cupboard. I'm yet to develop a load with those. I guess I'll be looking for a slower node.

Someone needs to come up with a hinged collet style case rim/webbing die......

Are the 168g VLD's stabilising well in 9 twist barrels?

I see Berger recommend a 10 twist.

Post by **AlanF** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:00 pm

I've had good experiences with the 168 VLD in 9 twist. Its been my most accurate 7mm bullet. 9 twist calculates highly stable with this bullet weight.

Alan

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:56 pm

I have been shooting my 284 Shehane for 3 years and had 2 barrels both 32" long to gain max velocity. I have loaded up to 59.0gr of 2213SC and have split necks and backed out primers pushing it beyond its limits.

I have learned the following works best for me and that is have a tight chamber and neck turn or if using a no neck turn chamber you can inside ream your cases. I have done both and both methods work fine to keep donuts at bay. The Achilles heel for this case is the expanding head and loose primer pockets.

There is no cure for this case weakness its something you have to live with if you want the superb accuracy this case with 180gr VLD/Hybrid bullets provides. Learn to live with loose primer pockets and fire forming with 168gr bullets, (55.5gr) is a good start to maximise the lifespan. I now shoot the 180s over 56.5gr of 2213SC for 2940fps, (MagnetoSpeed) and can live with primer pockets that while loose are still holding up to repeated firings. I measure case head expansion after each firing and discard any case that exceeds my limit.

The 284 is definitely worth persevering with if you like high scores from a low recoil rifle that can launch the 180s at competitive speeds. Learn to live with a case that is imperfect yet precise and yes its high maintenance if you push past its load limits.

Ian