Lapua .284 brass life

macguru · Post by **macguru** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:59 pm

Why not use the original 7mm remington magnum ?

If you rebarrel in 8 twist, and resize off the shoulder rather than let the belt support the case, would that not be a good option ??

its plenty large enough and has a magnum case head

andrew

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:43 pm

IanP wrote:I have been shooting my 284 Shehane for 3 years and had 2 barrels both 32" long to gain max velocity. I have loaded up to 59.0gr of 2213SC and have split necks and backed out primers pushing it beyond its limits.

I have learned the following works best for me and that is have a tight chamber and neck turn or if using a no neck turn chamber you can inside ream your cases. I have done both and both methods work fine to keep donuts at bay. The Achilles heel for this case is the expanding head and loose primer pockets.

There is no cure for this case weakness its something you have to live with if you want the superb accuracy this case with 180gr VLD/Hybrid bullets provides. Learn to live with loose primer pockets and fire forming with 168gr bullets, (55.5gr) is a good start to maximise the lifespan. I now shoot the 180s over 56.5gr of 2213SC for 2940fps, (MagnetoSpeed) and can live with primer pockets that while loose are still holding up to repeated firings. I measure case head expansion after each firing and discard any case that exceeds my limit.

The 284 is definitely worth persevering with if you like high scores from a low recoil rifle that can launch the 180s at competitive speeds. Learn to live with a case that is imperfect yet precise and yes its high maintenance if you push past its load limits.

Ian

Hi Ian, thats an interesting approach and a realistic view on the situation.
I suppose comfort is always dictated by expectation.

When you say "loose primer pocket" is that inline with my previous description?

How many firings do you get ball park once they've hit that very loose stage.

Thanks for your advice.

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:09 am

Denis, this where you normally cover your arse by saying best if you read a reloading book like Handloading For Competition. This book even shows the best way to measure head expansion with a set of digital calipers. I find after fire forming with a stout load (55.5gr) behind an Amax 162gr bullet, that the shoulder is formed nicely and the primer pockets are still like new.

Things change rapidly when 180gr VLDs/Hybrids are placed in front of my fave load of 56.5gr of 2213SC powder. The primer pockets take on a new feel when seating the primers which is not quite firm but still has some holding power. The pockets stay this way for a long time before giving up completely which I measure by case head expansion and avoid really loose pockets.

Using quality digital calipers and measuring using G. Zediker's, (buy the book) technique in the extractor groove I get the following. A new Lapua case measures 0.405" dia in the groove and I allow up to 3 thou expansion which takes it to 0.408". This is what I do and if you decide to use the same technique then you are following a path that comes with no guaranty. Now you know all about how to stress primer pockets for 284W cases. An easier but slower, (velocity) is just to load below the case head expansion point.

Remember that the loads I'm giving are for the 284 Shehane variation of the 284W case. The head expansion figures should be the same and that means when you have 3 thou expansion its time to retire the case.

Good luck and if you buy 200 cases and prepare them and shoot them like I do, you will probably get a minimum of 5 firings per case. Thats a years worth of shooting from 200 cases and that aint half bad!

Ian

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:31 am

Denis,

One important thing we haven't asked is what brand of primer are you using? I have some Winchester Large Rifles which are smaller and softer than the likes of CCI or Federal, and they are very loose when the BR-2s are still quite firm. Other Winchesters are probably similar. Remington may be a bit soft too. So if you're not doing so already, try some BR-2s or 210Ms. I use one or the other in the 7 Shehane because of that.

Alan

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:34 am

Ian, thanks again. I do have Handloading for Competition by G.Zediker though I haven't read it all yet and havent come across that section. I'll be sure to find that tonight. Thanks again.

Alan, I use Federal GM210M. I have experienced the smaller diameter Winchester primers feeling quite loose in some .308 brass.

I've got my hands on some Lapua brass again and some Norma brass. I'll build up a load for the 180VLD's and try and settle at a 2750ish node if I can find one thats tight enough.
My .284 is only a 500 - 700y gun, so I don't think I need the big MV of a competetive 1K load.
I'll load a few Norma cases at my old load for each .284 outing and see how they compare to my current Lapua cases.

Interesting that the old Lapua brass doesn't seem to share the same fate.

I might email Lapua and see what their thoughts are on the situation. I doubt there will be any positive feedabck if any at all since the problem just equates to more brass sales. After-all, why would they want their brass to last.

It would be great if they came out with a straight .284 case.

Cheers again gents.

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:23 pm

I've obviously been thinking about this waaaaaay to hard...........but this is how I now view the .284 after my experiences with all its idiosyncrasies.
The .284 is "THE" super model of cartridges.
It’s slim, tall and looks amazing.
It’s lots of fun to play with and at the end of session it leaves you feeling VERY satisfied.
It’s extremely high maintenance but it’s hard to let go of because of the confidence it gives you.
Other blokes that don’t have one are always looking at, and want to play with yours.
It’s always a short term relationship.
There’s not too much in the head.

I’m pretty sure there’s a line or two about reaming necks and expanding primer pockets but I won’t go there.

OuttaAmmo · Post by **OuttaAmmo** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:24 pm

I thought "short and fat" was the "in thing" these days....

John23 · Post by **John23** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:52 pm

They are the wifes of the cartridge world. :lol:

JH

Brad Y · Post by **Brad Y** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:36 pm

It cant be long before lapua do make straight 284 cases. They made 308's with small primer pockets for target shooters, surely they will make 284's for long range shooters.

DenisA · Post by **DenisA** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:15 pm

Hi all,

I'm on my mobile and don't have access to a computer at the moment so this may be tricky to post.

I got an email back from Lapua. I'll post my question and their answer. As you can see they would like batch numbers. If anyones interested in sharing there soft batch numbers and hard batch numbers and loads, I'll add it all to the response.

Here's the emails.

MESSAGE:
To whom it may concern,

I sent the following enquiry to you a few days ago and have not yet recieved and answer.

The straight .284 cartridge (7mm) is obviously an extremely popular target cartridge these days when combined with high BC bullets. The Lapua 6.5-.284 case is the most used case here in Australia when \"necked up\".
The results we\'re getting with 180g high BC bullets at 2800 - 2900 fps are phenomenal though we are seeing an issue with Lapua brass in this situation.
The \"New\" Lapua brass supplied in the blue plastic boxes are opening primer pockets very early, before any other pressure signs appear even before primers start to show any sign of flattening. By the 5th firing, primers have virtually no resistance when seating. This problem is being noticed by experienced handloaders using all appropriate brass prep techniques for longevity. Through many accounts, the old cardboard boxed Lapua brass was not doing this and people are still shooting the same brass years later.

Is Lapua aware of this problem?

Has the recipe for the brass changed and how?

Is it possible for the recipe be modified to rectify this problem?

Will Lapua ever release a straight .284 case?

Yours sincerely
Denis A#####

Their response.

Hello Denis,

Thank you for the feedback concerning our cases.

Your comments about loose primers and primer pockets are very interesting. To help our internal investigations, I would like to have a lot number of faulty cases. Sending the samples from Australia to Finland would be quite difficult and slow, but this lot number is good to know, so we can track down our own test result during the time of production. You will find the lot number from the case box and it looks like P00132401. Because this is reloaded product, it also would be good for us to know the load you are using.

We will make some investigation with this matter and you will receive more official answer after we have finished our studies.

To help our work, could you please mention our claim number "C2013-0005" in further messages...

BR,

Ville Alakoskela
Quality Engineer
Nammo Lapua Oy

I hope this post worked from my phone.

aaronraad · Post by **aaronraad** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:29 pm

Just an aside. Quite a few of the 1000BR shooters are investigate necking down 8x68mm RWS brass. Apparently the RWS brass is quite thick?

Post by **AlanF** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:38 pm

Denis,

Well done on getting a response from Lapua. I agree with your description regarding head expansion being the first pressure sign (before primer cratering or difficult extraction) when using the 180s.

However I personally haven't noticed any difference between the older cardboard box brass (Lot 2393507 in my case) and the blue box stuff (PO 577401 in my case). Of course it could be that my older brass was from a relatively new lot.

Alan

RDavies · Post by **RDavies** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:36 pm

My soft cases, new Blue box are Lot P00620601. My old cases were over 3 years old, some more, after being used in a few barrels, similar load.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:53 am

Interesting post. But getting Lapua to come out with a full .284 with no primer pocket issues will be a tough ask.

I have been thinking of going down a different path. This would involve getting new brass made up with .284 win case dimensions but without the rebated base.

This would involve a change in the design to the bolt head on current rifles.

Such a change in case design would result in a much stronger base and should solve the issue completely.

To have this case designed and built to specifications using quality brass, I would need an order of about 3000 cases. Anyone interested?

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:10 am

Thats an interesting approach Norm. I didn't know custom brass could be made to order. You could keep your existing chamber(s) and dies, but would need a magnum bolt face and not much else (shellholders etc). In my case (Barnard) I'm not sure whether that would require a new bolt, anyone? If a new bolt was required (approaching $1000 I believe) then I'd probably prefer going with a magnum (RSAUM or WSM), because of their larger powder capacity.

Alan