Julie McEwan's "Vertical" with a 6 Dasher at North Arm OPM

[RDavies]

On a serious note, until I read about the weather conditions and the fact that it shot a cloverleaf at 500, I was thinking it is like some barrels I have actually seen. These barrels/loads shot some awesome waterline groups but always seemed to be a wide flat group, not a tidy little bug hole. I am as guilty as most with trying to chase vertical, but end up with a load which is either super sensitive in the wind, or just groups in a horizontal pattern.

Weather was rough Rod. Real washing machine type stuff. Pickups and dropoffs were rapid.
Someone else who was there may explain it better.
Julie shot a 60.7 at 300, the previous range, in easier conditions.
It shot a 60.9 at 600yds with load development.

I might test the rifle's harmonics with a large hammer though.
I could try this with the rifle too: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... ture-test/

Cam

If it shot lovely bug holes at 500 or 600 and shot that ET picture in bad conditions, it obviously doesn't have the flat line curse. Like Brad said, I have had the occasional one which would shoot pretty flat (maybe not as flat as yours) but wide in very light or dead conditions. A change in seating depth or barrel showed the wind was not too bad.

[phillh]

This is my TR group at 600m last weekend in strong gusty frontal fishtail winds. I know it isn't as tight as Julie's but not too bad for a TR shooter .

Regards,

Phill

600m.png

[johnk]

I recall some years back now, Stewie Mowat became the Belmont TR tamer. He would scope a TR rifle & use the foresight as a tuner for clients like Bill Martin. Occasionally, at the old 100 yards range, I would watch him minutely incrementing the rifle's foresight to modify the group pattern. Over a full "range" of tune, a group would meld from a straight line vertical group to a somewhat larger cloverleaf & on to a straight line horizontally.

Maybe sometimes, we don't know when we've achieved the best possible rifle grouping.

In his book on point blank benchrest, Tony Boyer speaks of tuning his load to give it a little bit of vertical. With Stewie's experience in mind, I took that to mean that accommodating to a bit of vertical grouping is more useful than a tad of horizontal spread with an unknown element of wind.

[williada]

John, can I endorse your remarks. That's exactly what we did so long ago with the foresight block and your note on the element of vertical is correct. Indeed, the paradigm of a lateral group should be turned on its head. Also that we do have a higher extreme spread about a node, not necessarily a low one; and the sweet spot to reduce elevation on the target (but in terms of a tight group, not a spread group) is a point before the node peak. Some of Ecomeat's newer groups will be posted soon. He is testing at the moment. David.

[ecomeat]

This is my TR group at 600m last weekend in strong gusty frontal fishtail winds. I know it isn't as tight as Julie's but not too bad for a TR shooter .

Regards,

Phill

C'mon Phil, don't be a tease....where are #3 & #4 ?
Regardless of where they went, that's an awesome result . Well done Any hot 7 mm scope shooter would have to be happy with that result in the conditions that you described.
Tell us about your rifle and load ?

[aaronraad]

Nice one phillh!

Does that work to be about 1/2MOA between the upper #8 and the lower #1 shot?

I'm guessing #10 was a rouge condition after expecting to be taken out to 3-O'Clock and not to 9-O'Clock?

What adjustment do you have on your vertical sight and do you ever play the "between ball-dent click" game to get 1/2 adjustments again, especially at the shorter ranges.

williada, were there any hard and fast rules for coaches on rep teams uses 1/2 clicks? My sights were 1/3rd's in both directions but I know a few with 1/2 in the vert that would use split to get 1/4 in theory?

Goes to F-Class shooters choosing between 1/4 or 1/8MOA in their turrents or whatever that is in MILS (does anyone use MILS by choice?).

[plumbs7]

Nice one phillh!

Does that work to be about 1/2MOA between the upper #8 and the lower #1 shot?

I'm guessing #10 was a rouge condition after expecting to be taken out to 3-O'Clock and not to 9-O'Clock?

What adjustment do you have on your vertical sight and do you ever play the "between ball-dent click" game to get 1/2 adjustments again, especially at the shorter ranges.

williada, were there any hard and fast rules for coaches on rep teams uses 1/2 clicks? My sights were 1/3rd's in both directions but I know a few with 1/2 in the vert that would use split to get 1/4 in theory?

Goes to F-Class shooters choosing between 1/4 or 1/8MOA in their turrents or whatever that is in MILS (does anyone use MILS by choice?).

Yep I think I'm about the only one ! I think 1 mill is 3.86 inches at 100 yards . Eg one click of my turrents is just under half a minute. Cheers!

Ok,ok .... I'll come clean! The main reason why I shoot in mils is wind reading in Mph! For my 308 155 gr load the wind correction is as follows :
300 yd for every 1mph 9:00 wind is .05 of mill.
Eg 2 mph would be .1 correction plus or minus spin drift !
500 yds and 600 yds say a 5 mph wind at 9:00 the correction is .5 mills or five clicks plus spin drift correction . 800 and 900 I Double the correction , which would be for a 5 mph wind again 1 mill plus or minus 2 clicks for spindrift.
1000 is double plus 2 for wind from 2-3mph them from 3-7 mph double plus 3 extra clicks plus or minus spin!
Eg 5 mph 9:00 wind eg full value left wind is 1.3 mills plus 2 extra clicks left for spindrift ! Total gross is 1.5 mills .
Then from 1-2 is half. Wind coming from 2-3 is 10% of the full value and of coarse 3 o'clock is full. This is even in all quadrants ! With Tmr rectile as long as have zoom on the correct setting! If boil or a different condition blows in, I can correct on the fly!
So that's why I have stuck with it! Also good for lr hunting which is what got me into F Class in the first place .( I still hunt with my rem!)

Sorry A little of topic !but a secret I've held for some time!

[DaveMc]

Nice one phillh!

williada, were there any hard and fast rules for coaches on rep teams uses 1/2 clicks? My sights were 1/3rd's in both directions but I know a few with 1/2 in the vert that would use split to get 1/4 in theory?

Goes to F-Class shooters choosing between 1/4 or 1/8MOA in their turrents or whatever that is in MILS (does anyone use MILS by choice?).

Aaron, I don't know about hard and fast rules but we made a decision last year to stick with only 1/8 click scopes in the FCWC open team. It is hard work on the coaches and bound for errors when you jump from one to the other. Imagine winding up 2 minutes instead of 1 in the heat of the moment!

S&B have a turret option on their big scopes with 1/4cm clicks at 100m (1/40 MIL, 1/11.5 MOA ) - Very fine and great for some options but would be hard on coaches as well.

[williada]

Aaron, Dave has said what I think. You want all team members singing the same song from a coaches perspective.

If you were talking iron sights, there were English Minutes and there were Australian Minutes which were used by past teams. Herb Mc and Tom C came up with the TMac which used 1/4 for elevation and 1/2 for windage. Coaches could leave the windage between notches to get 1/4 adjustments, or 1/8 in the elevation.

Here is a link which explains some history: http://www.busseltonrc.com/Articles/Tri ... inutes.pdf

All that being said, if the barrels differed in length it changes the sight radius and this was another reason teams set barrel lengths. David.

[phillh]

The gear I use is a Millennium action, 1:13 Bartlein barrel which has shot about 3500 rds, 155.5 gr Berger 15 thou jump with 46.0 gr 2208 powder. I have a Centra rear sight with 1/4 el and 1/2 wind, and yes I play with between the ball-dent adjustments for wind. Looking at the grid, the squares are 1 MOA so I make that group about 1/4 high.
Phill

[aaronraad]

The gear I use is a Millennium action, 1:13 Bartlein barrel which has shot about 3500 rds, 155.5 gr Berger 115 thou jump with 46.0 gr 2208 powder. I have a Centra rear sight with 1/4 el and 1/2 wind, and yes I play with between the ball-dent adjustments for wind. Looking at the grid, the squares are 1 MOD so I make that group about 1/4 high.
Phill